JonS Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 *brainfart* (sorry ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JasonC: The first thing to understand is that US armor divisions arrived in several waves or "generations". 1, 2 and 3 were "old" pattern, 1942 era divisions, with a tank heavy structure. 1st was in Italy, 2nd and 3rd in Normandy.N.B. The 1st. transitioned to the Combat Command (balanced armor and infantry battalions within the division) structure of the later divisions during 1943 or early '44.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Yeide Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 The 3d Armored Division fielded M4A1(76mm) tanks in Normandy. I am uncertain about the 2d AD. Like many equipment upgrades, the appearance of 76mm Shermans in the independent tank battalions varied tremendously. At one extreme, the 774th Tank Battalion entered combat in August fully equipped with 76mm-armed Shermans, and the 70th drew 76mm Shermans on 10 August (all of which went to Able Company). The 737th on 19 October 1944 received a single tank with a 76mm gun, which it decided to use as an assault gun attached to Headquarters Company and shuttled among the line units as needed. And the other D-Day veterans? The 741st drew its first 76mm Shermans on 1 January 1945, and the 743rd received its first five M4s with 76mm guns on 2 January. The French 2d Armored Division landed in Normandy. It was the French 1st Armored Division that landed in southern France. The 1st-3d Armored divisions did, indeed, use combat commands, but the fundamental structure was different. The heavy divisions retained the regimental structure, whereas the other armored divisions had three each of tank and armored infantry battalions. Moreover, the heavy divisions normally had only two combat commands, although the 1st Armored Division used four for a while in North Africa and the 3d Armored Division formed a CCR sometime around November 1944. The 1st AD converted to the light structure on 20 July 1944. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Originally posted by Harry Yeide: The 1st-3d Armored divisions did, indeed, use combat commands, but the fundamental structure was different. The heavy divisions retained the regimental structure, whereas the other armored divisions had three each of tank and armored infantry battalions. Moreover, the heavy divisions normally had only two combat commands, although the 1st Armored Division used four for a while in North Africa and the 3d Armored Division formed a CCR sometime around November 1944. The 1st AD converted to the light structure on 20 July 1944. What he said. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Harry Yeide: The 1st-3d Armored divisions did, indeed, use combat commands, but the fundamental structure was different. The heavy divisions retained the regimental structure, whereas the other armored divisions had three each of tank and armored infantry battalions. Moreover, the heavy divisions normally had only two combat commands, although the 1st Armored Division used four for a while in North Africa and the 3d Armored Division formed a CCR sometime around November 1944. The 1st AD converted to the light structure on 20 July 1944. What he said. Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Thanks to all for the useful corrections. To Harry in particular - do you have any numbers for 76mm Shermans for 3rd armored during the Normandy fighting, when they got them, etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Thanks to all who responded! Some great information in there... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Yeide Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Originally posted by JasonC: Thanks to all for the useful corrections. To Harry in particular - do you have any numbers for 76mm Shermans for 3rd armored during the Normandy fighting, when they got them, etc? Sorry, I don't have that info handy. There are photos, though, of 33d Armored Regiment 76mm Shermans with the 3d AD in August. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Thanks. A little after Normandy proper then. 3rd AD fought in the push to St. Lo from 9 July, in the breakout, at Mortain (one CC), and in the hardest fighting to try close the Falaise pocket. In a sketch combat history the division association has, I find the replacement section processed 41 medium tanks during the Mortain counterattack period in early August, specifically the 7th to the 12th. That is probably when they got them, I would guess. Whether to upgun deliberately on getting intel of the counterattack and being assigned to help stop it, or more likely as replacements for losses taken. That was the 33rd regiment in particular. While obviously it can't pretend to being exhaustive since it is a high level summary, it doesn't mention any frontal kills of Panthers by Shermans through the August fights, though it does explicitly mention KOing Panthers from the front with TDs at point blank range. Earlier in the Normandy period, fights between Shermans and Panzer IVs are recorded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Hmmm.... Just had us a little earthquake here in Berkeley. While we're discussing US Armored Divisions, I had dinner last night with the transport officer of the 9th Armored Division ("Phantom")... a very spry gentleman of 94. Among other things, he was the guy responsible for hustling as much traffic as possible over the Ludendorff bridge, and later the pontoon bridge, in the days after Remagen. Any otherwise unanswerable questions you'd like me to ask him for posterity? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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