For Kingfish (Tigers in Florence)

[John Kettler]

Kingfish,

Thought you'd get a kick out of this.

http://www.lonesentry.com/tigerflorence/index.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[dieseltaylor]

Several of the New Zealand antitank gunners' experiences in combating Tigers will be of special interest:

1. A Tiger was observed about 3,000 yards away, engaging three Shermans. When it set one of the Shermans afire, the other two withdrew over a crest. A 17-pounder was brought up to within 2,400 yards of the Tiger, and engaged it from a flank. When the Tiger realized that it was being engaged by a high-velocity gun, it swung around 90 degrees so that its heavy frontal armor was toward the gun. In the ensuing duel, one round hit the turret, another round hit the suspension, and two near-short rounds probably ricocheted into the tank. The tank was not put out of action. The range was too great to expect a kill; hence the New Zealanders' tactics were to make the Tiger expose its flank to the Shermans at a range of almost 500 yards, by swinging around onto the antitank gun. The Tiger did just this, and, when it was engaged by the Shermans, it withdrew. The enemy infantry protection of half a dozen to a dozen men was engaged by machine guns.

Notice the short ranges in Europe --- 2400yds! Good item. Thanks JK

[von Lucke]

2400 yds short range? 2000m is extreme for yr typical CMAK / CMBB scenario.

Now, the meager 500 yd distance between the Shermans and Tiger is more remarkable.

[Kingfish]

Heavy & accurate mortar fire continued throughout the operation…. Tank No. 10 (O.C. of No. 8 Troop) received direct hits by HE & AP & caught fire. Turret crew badly knocked about. I died of wounds, 2 wounded…. Decision to withdraw tanks slightly to more covered positions made. During this, No. 3 tank was hit by HE but managed to limp to cover. Remained out of action thereafter. Fire started under No. 12 tank & the commander was wounded trying to put it out. At this stage, TIGER tank identified approx. 1500 yards to NE. Heavily engaged … & many direct hits scored. No. 11 tank received direct hit in return & caught fire. Entire turret crew killed.

This slogging match lasted all afternoon. Second-Lieutenant Harry Hodge's 7 Troop, coming forward through the smoke of the burning tanks to reinforce the badly-hit 5 and 8 Troops, joined battle with the Tiger, which moved from its cemetery down the gully to B Squadron's right, and was stopped in a maize field as it tried to climb the opposite hill to Route 2. It was not easy to bring the guns to bear on it–in the end only Corporal Bruce Johnstone's9 tank, with Trooper ‘Squat’ Warren10 on the gun, was able to shoot with any chance of success, firing from the shelter of a tall clump of bushes. The other crews of 7 Troop took ammunition from their tanks to keep up Johnstone's supply. Johnstone writes of the action:

We used H.E. shells to observe our bursts & then continued to use AP & APHE…. We had to knock the tops off some very tall trees in the gully for us to see our target eventually…. We could see the AP bouncing from his hide.

Luckily the Tiger, being now on the far slope of the gully and stern on to its assailant, couldn't elevate its gun to return the fire. It was a rare opportunity.

While this was going on, the Villa Bonazza and its plantations, which were still full of Germans, were taking a battering from the artillery. As the afternoon wore on the fire from the villa faltered, and by evening the place was empty. Jerry had apparently had enough and had retired from the field.

The Tiger was left dead in the maize field, a pathetic derelict, damaged beyond repair and finally blown up by its crew. Nobody realised this till next morning. It was cause for celebration in 18 Regiment, for this was 2 NZ Division's first Tiger. The tankies swarmed over it, admiring it and the persistent gunnery that had wounded it to death.

Wouldn't it be cool if someone designed a scenario around this battle?

...sigh...one can only dream...

Anyway, After the Battle magazine Issue #129 covers the battles for Florence, and in it there are many modern day comparison pictures taken by a guy named Perry Rowe (who goes by the handle "ropey" on this board). He was able to pass along some pics of the area around San Michele, Villa Strada and Villa Bonnaza, all of which I used when I designed the maps.

But best of all were some incredible shots of the above dead Tiger, some taken from atop the turret looking down the barrel as it pointed towards the opposite valley.

[Mudhugger]

The Tiger was left dead in the maize field, a pathetic derelict, damaged beyond repair and finally blown up by its crew. Nobody realised this till next morning. It was cause for celebration in 18 Regiment, for this was 2 NZ Division's first Tiger. The tankies swarmed over it, admiring it and the persistent gunnery that had wounded it to death.

Not the same tank the picture shows. That's no corn field. Nice picture anyway.

[Kingfish]

No, that is the same tank. Villa Strada is directly behind, and if the pic were a darker resolution you would see the crenellated tower which gave the nickname "The Castle".

Here are a couple more:

Dead Tiger

Looking down the barrel towards Villa Bonazza

It may be that the first pic I posted was of the same Tiger, only taken months later after the field was replanted. Note in the first pic I posted the tank appears to be missing its RH track, while the second shows it still intact.

[Mudhugger]

The two shots in your links are definitely in a corn field as described.

Great pictures by the way. I really like the 2nd one of the terrain in front of the gun.

[John Kettler]

Mudhugger,

Concur as to both pictures and crop depicted!

Regards,

John Kettler

[dieseltaylor]

VL - I was being ironic.

Have played a couple of Italian games on huge. hilly maps and we are recording kills at 1000+ on armour. A pleasant change from all these tiny scenarios where small maps make for short distances for all the firing and movement and angles are constrained heavily.

It is interesting when you have kilometre wide flanks from any flag. Players really can exercise the kind of thought that is indicated in pounding the Tiger detailed above.