What good are off map rockets?

[Razgovory]

In some scenarios I found that start off with a rocket FO. I'll order a pre-planned attack, and pepper half the map in large holes. That would be fine if I was trying to build a golf course, but not for softening up an enemy postion. So my question is what good are off map rocket batteries? Were they ever used in the small scale battles of CMBB?

[JasonC]

If the enemy has 3 half squads on a map the size of Nevada, none. If the enemy has a regiment on a square kilometer, plenty, because nearly every rocket will land near something.

Yes they were certainly used on battles at the CM scale. The more enemy there are in the fight, the more likely some of the rockets hit something. You don't have to know where they are, other than very roughly.

Time them (using a 1st turn fire mission and hitting "Q" to delay) so your own men are still outside the zone they can land in - which usually means early, like minute 5 or so. Defenders can also use them for spoiling barrages just beyond the attacker's set up zone, on turns 3 to 5 or so.

[Chappie]

Originally posted by JasonC:

Time them (using a 1st turn fire mission and hitting "Q" to delay) so your own men are still outside the zone they can land in - which usually means early, like minute 5 or so. Defenders can also use them for spoiling barrages just beyond the attacker's set up zone, on turns 3 to 5 or so.

Can you expand on the funtion of "Q" delay please.

Can it be used on all indirect weapons?

[JasonC]

Any fire mission ordered for an FO on the first turn of the game - except in meeting engagements where planned "map fire" is not allowed - is considered a pre-plotted "map fire" barrage. It will always be accurate, landing at the requested aim point. It cannot be adjusted. The entire module will be expended at that aim point as fast as the guns can be reloaded.

The default starting time for such map fire is the very start of the game, instantly. But you can request it for any turn, instead. To do so, you just order the fire mission normally, then with the FO selected press the "Q" key. This will increase the time delay before the mission starts in one minute increments. So instead of starting on turn 1, you can order the mission for turn 5 or turn 8.

You can use a succession of pre-planned missions at different times to concoct an entire "fire plan", provided you have enough modules available. So e.g. you might have two rocket modules hit the whole enemy backfield on turn 5, then have a 122 module hit a certain forest on turn 8, then have 152s shell a hill farther back, "target wide", starting on turn 12.

Then you time your advance to conform to your fire plan, rather than adjusting observed artillery missions to conform to your advance and the enemies you spot along the way.

This is a less flexible way to use arty, because you don't know for certain at the time you order the fire whether someone will be there at the intended time. But it does not require close coordination between the gunners and the front line troops. It puts less strain on communications. It needs a lot of guns, but if those are available it can work as well as more flexible called missions.

Essentially everyone used arty this way in WW I, and a lot of the missions fired in WW II by all concerned used this method rather than "reactive" fire. The Russians in particular kept using it right to the end of the war, especially on offense.

The mission will land at the designated time regardless of what happens in the meantime. You can't cancel it. You can't redirect it. Even if the FO is killed or moves off the board, the fire will still come down as planned. No LOS is needed. The FO is only used to call the fire on turn 1 - after that it is effectively out of play.

One neat trick in QBs with random rariety is to buy whichever higher echelon, large caliber arty types happen to have low rariety, and then to buy them as low quality units - greens or conscripts. The only difference that will make in map fire is that the salvos are a bit more spread out (longer reload times) for conscripts. You still get the same number of rounds, and they will land accurately and go boom just as much.

Longer delay isn't an issue with map fire - there is no delay, except what you plan with the "Q" key on purpose. Less responsive stuff is cheaper, and so is low quality stuff. Combine both and throw in randomly low rariety, and you can get some pretty scary calibers in quantity without spending an arm and a leg. You just have to move to the fire plan instead of firing to your movement plan...

[Chappie]

A comprehensive response JasonC, thanks.

I shall take a little time to practice such methods.

You would not happen to be an ex gunner perhaps?

[GRUMLIN]

I recently played a pbem scenario where i had a bunch of rockets available. Objectives were in the middle of a small village, so I knew roughly where the germans were going to be. I timed the rockets for +7 minutes and aimed at the rear of the village.

Timed it right - rockets came down, wide spread to be sure, but pinned/panicked enough of the unseen enemy that i was assaulting already demoralised men at T+9. Got a major victory.

I woudlnt use rockets except for pre-planned, but when they work, they can really tip the balance.

G

[JasonC]

USAR, 155mm and 8 inch self propelled. Not active though, just reserves. (And former, not present).

[Chappie]

Originally posted by JasonC:

USAR, 155mm and 8 inch self propelled. Not active though, just reserves. (And former, not present).

RAA(Reverve)105mm Fld Gun, Hammel JOST (Joint Offensive Support Team aka FO party ) and current.

Thought I could detect the keen interest in guns.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Razgovory:

In some scenarios I found that start off with a rocket FO. I'll order a pre-planned attack, and pepper half the map in large holes. That would be fine if I was trying to build a golf course, but not for softening up an enemy postion. So my question is what good are off map rocket batteries? Were they ever used in the small scale battles of CMBB?

In addition to what has been said earlier in this thread, I'll put in a plug for using multiple batteries, especially if you are using rockets. Because of the spread, I will target more than one battery on the same location in order to get a useful saturation of the target area. I once put four batteries of 132mm on the same point in the same turn and the result was awesome. Seemed to do a bit of killing too.

Michael

[Aco4bn187inf]

A few quotes about Russian use of (undoubtedly pre-planned) artillery from

In Deadly Combat by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann trans Derek S. Zumbro pub. University Press of Kansas 2000

p.261-262

At exactly 0600 on 21December 1944, our sector of the division was enveloped in a firestorm...

It was confirmed that within the sector of Grenadier Regiment 438 alone, more than eight hundred barrels -consisting of a deadly combination of heavy artillery, rockets, and mortars- fired multiple salvos on our positions...

Machine-gun nests, earthworks, bunkers and reinforced fire positions along our front collapsed in dust and smoke...

First the heavy fire was directed on the foremost positions; it then careened over the Stedini heights, after which it advanced into the wooded area to our rear to descend upon the regimental headquarters...

...entire trees sailed into the sky...

...Ivan had broken through...concentrations of tanks piled high with infantry had been sighted.

Suddenly the barrage on our position lifted. In the distance, to our right and left flanks, the shells and rockets continued to fall with indescribable fury...The silence in our sector was an ominous sign, which I had experienced in battles past. The Soviet artillery had lifted in our area and was now concentrating on our flanks. We were occupying the corridor through which the enemy armor would attempt to thrust toward our open rear sectors.

Bidermann writes that tanks and fighter bombers arrived right behind the barrage. If I remember correctly, he earlier stated that the method of sealing the attack lane's flanks with artillery fire was originally a German one. The action described took place in Courland.

[Znarf]

Originally posted by Razgovory:

In some scenarios I found that start off with a rocket FO. I'll order a pre-planned attack, and pepper half the map in large holes. That would be fine if I was trying to build a golf course, but not for softening up an enemy postion. So my question is what good are off map rocket batteries? Were they ever used in the small scale battles of CMBB?

Try my scenarios "Destruction of Army Group Center" or "LP Gerta" available at the Scenario Depot. Both are Axis AI v. Soviet Computer only. AG Center may may bog lower end computers, so you may want to try "LP Gerta" first, which is the subset battle of Destruction of AG Center. You'll see what a Rocket FO can do.