Jaegermeister Battle

[Pilsener]

I am a new player of this game. My question concerns the Jagermeister Battle as played by the Allies. I have no problem playing as the Axis against the AI.

I set up the German defenses as per this screenshot

Now the Russians let loose a tremendous rocket barrage, but it falls well to the rear of my troops. I suppose any local farmer with a rabbit warren problem would be most grateful for their efforts.

Ivan shows up around turn 6 or 7. In the initial exchange of fire, his Infantry catch hell from the MG42 posts and the Panther's MGs. It happens now and then that the Russians kill one of my Panthers.

Map 2

So far so good. OK this time they knoocked out three of my Panthers and severely damaged the fourth but not without suffering crippling losses. My Tigers had arrived by then anyway.

By turn 22 (sometimes when I play this one I can do it by turn 20) I can advance and take the ridge to the North east of the woods.

At this stage or shortly thereafter, the Russians surrender. Now for some questions.

Firstly, are my tactics correct? I am using a variation of the Imfantry Minor Tactics I was taught years ago as a member of the Australian Army Reserves.

Secondly, I have tried over and over again to succeed with the Russians but with no success at all. The best I have been able to achieve so far is a minor defeat. It doesn't seem to matter how I manoever the Russian tanks, the Germans just shoot them to pieces.

Therefore thirdly, what in hell am I doing wrong?

Pilsener

[JasonC]

Your images are red x's, they do not show up for me.

Your descriptions are confusing, frequently speaking as though you are playing as the Germans rather than as the Russians, yet ending by asking what the Russians should do.

I see no description of a Russian plan, let alone any AAR about what happened while executing it, what worked or didn't.

The usual mistake in this scenario as the Russians is trying to duel the German tanks frontally, from near the initial set up area. Works poorly.

A better strategy is a left hook, sending most of the heavy armor left from the set up zone, then right into the town, from about the center of the map and farther to the left. Some AFVs can remain in the initial area but should not show themselves until after the left hook begins to engage. Then they should shoot-n-scoot to get off single shots on tanks facing the wrong way, before reversing back into the trees to break LOS.

The left hook should make abundant use of area fire with HE on all the cover along the intended route and all the buildings and treelines that can see each part of it. The Russians have enourmous HE firepower. It is lost if the tanks are killed before it is fired. Fire it early instead, and you can seriously mess up the German infantry before your own engages, and make it relatively easy for the infantry to advance. You can also force the German tanks to come looking for LOS to your HE shooters, instead of the other way around.

Your infantry should be able to enter the town ahead of the tanks and just behind their HE fire. It should get you spots of the cats before they get LOS to your tanks. You will rarely get actual tank kills with the infantry, and will lose some of the leading guys to ambushes, or by getting picked on by a Tiger. Just "skulk" back out of LOS when that happens, temporarily, advancing everywhere else. Enemy tanks you pick off one at a time by hitting them with several of your own, when possible from multiple directions.

It is perfectly winnable as the Russians. But sitting in the initial set up area of advancing into the open right in front of it, will just result in a straight ahead duel with superior German tanks. They have better rate of fire and penetrate more of your hit locations than the reverse, so that will lose your armor, modestly trading his down, at best. His remaining armor with intact infantry behind it will easily hold off unsupported infantry.

As for targeting rockets, aim center of mass of a large area. The pattern is 500m wide by about 300m deep. Areas you expect infantry. Fire them soon enough that none of your own guys will be there yet. Don't expect them to do much but disrupt infantry. Your main HE prep should be delivered direct from the AFVs, using "area fire" to hit locations you suspect may be occupied, not waiting for spots.

[Pilsener]

Thank you for your reply Jason. I must apologise here for my maps not showing up online. I tried to use the image command but it seems it didn't work for me.

I'll try it another way. The url for map 1

http://image56.webshots.com/56/4/41/53/537744153ZergXV_ph.jpg

Map 2:

http://image64.webshots.com/164/4/82/92/537748292IKEEZq_ph.jpg

You might have to copy and paste these into your browser.

Your descriptions are confusing, frequently speaking as though you are playing as the Germans rather than as the Russians, yet ending by asking what the Russians should do.

You're right, I enjoy playing as the Germans. However what intrigues me about this scenario is the enormous Russian superiority in numbers. What I was asking was, what happens when I try it the other way about, playing as the Russians.

I see you answered that question very well. Playing as the Russians, I have tried a left hook myself but I can't seem to co-ordinate things properly between the Armour and the Infantry, so I usually end up in a mess.

Pilsener

[ January 06, 2006, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Pilsener ]

[JasonC]

Well, the coordination should not be all that difficult, it is just a matter of letting each arm do what it does best, and patience to let the other arm set things up for it first.

Initially you want to run armor left along the edge as far as the road and get into the scattered tree area in the middle, that is masked from the long alley you were dueling along before, by the central mass of woods just in front of the town. Infantry can go too, some riding some on "run" as far as the woods, then "move to contact".

Send a modest amount of infantry, like a scouting platoon, wide left through the whole arc of woods. They just establish how far your left flank is clear, and let the rest of the force expand in that direct over time, safely. Most of the infantry should accumulate in the arc of woods facing the big block of it shy of the village.

Tanks set up in the scattered trees astride the road and begin blowing up the woods on the other side, area fire. Also any of the houses they can sneak a LOS line too. Then send a few half squads on "advance" across the field. If the way isn't clear, they will be shot up, so don't send many. If they make it have them stop and send more. Meanwhile the tanks can come into the open between the two bodies of woods. If you pick up defenders on the other side, blow them to heck with tank HE from where you are. Repeat the crossing attempt after they are smashed.

Build up lots of infantry in the woods just shy of the town this way, pushing through them to get LOS to the far side. Support them with modest numbers of tanks poking LOS line through gaps or scattered tree patches. If you've scouted the far side woods toward the left end, you can also peek tanks around the left end of that arc of woods. That axis will cross its fire with spots from the initial set up area (where a few infantry and FOs can hang out to get spots etc). AFVs there can wait until all that happens, and only poke far enough forward in the initial trees to give LOS, if they see a chance to hit cats from the side.

The rest is small tactics.

[Zalgiris 1410]

I remmember playing this one as a newbie several times over as both the Germans and as the Russians. Your right, going the Germans is easy although I always lost the Panther Pltn HQ, I sware every bloody time. I usually just lined the Panthers up behind the stone wall of the cemetery. Had the 75mm ATG's in good firing positions, one far left, on centre and one centre-right, across the road, all in the trees. The Infantry Platoons went into similar positions, re-inforced in the centre tree clumbs with all SMG squads, HMGs and Panzerschecks. Bang bang. I found that even against a trippling of the Russian forces I always won fairly easy against the AI for the loss of a Panther or 3 and may be an ATG and a Tiger at times.

I did play the Russians a few times, tried the shoot & scoot from the ridgeline and that didn't work, tried the left hook and got shot to **** and tried a few other combinations inbetween that all also didn't work. As I said I was a real newbie at the time though...may be I should give it another go, hey!

[wvfoos]

Yeah, you need to send your armor, around to the left, and I even took a couple of platoons of infantry to the right, behind that one little building to the extreme right of your starting position. Then ran them straight across the road to the bushes. Then I approached that stone wall/graveyard from that direction. IIRC, I even set up a HMG by that lone building and had it cover the whole road/church/graveyard.

I put my arty spotter on the front edge of that clump of trees/ridge to the right of your starting position.

[Corvidae]

I played it as soviets ,,

lost a lot of tanks ,,

but ...........

there ya go ,,

[Corvidae]

use rocket barrage on first turn center on the church

blast the ridge with IS2s,

move quickly to take both forested areas, you will want these

destroy house on near ridge and pound any possible german positions on ridge

move your company HQ and both maxims up to the ruined house, along with remaining artilery spotter,

Shunt all reinforcements to the left and up ,,,