Differentials and you

[SpitfireXI]

I am currently reading Dmitry Lozas account of fighting in Shermans on the Eastern Front. Two things that he has mentioned really have me bothered. One is that the ground pressure ratio of the Sherman (I am assuming M4A3) is one of the lowest of any tank. Lower than T-34's and Panthers. He tells a story about killing a Tiger beacause the Tiger would not be able to follow him into the mud. I have always been led to believe that the Sherman had narrow tracks and was always getting bogged down. I have noticed this often in the game with the Sherman. And the other thing that really bothered me was that T-34's have differential gears. He specifically mentions that a T-34 can have one track moving in the opposite direction of the other and allows it to turn fast and in confined areas. Notice that in the game the T-34 never does this.

Are these things not just modeled in the game?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Compare ground pressures in game to see the differences. Keep in mind that you are reading the rememberances of a poorly educated soldier from a country where information was too valuable to share with most of the people, so we can forgive him for incorrect conclusions.

As far as the game, 0 radius turns, like the Tiger and Churchill were capable of, are not modelled. Vehicles rotate roughly alike for coding purposes. But you can bet CMx2 will take a shot at improving that.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe:

Compare ground pressures in game to see the differences. Keep in mind that you are reading the rememberances of a poorly educated soldier from a country where information was too valuable to share with most of the people, so we can forgive him for incorrect conclusions.

Yeah, right, an ignorant peasant Colonel who served as an instructor at the Frunze Military Academy.

In fact the figure Loza gives for the Sherman's ground pressure (presumably M4A2 as this was the main variant supplied to the Sovs) is a pretty good match for that quoted in Chamberlain & Ellis' Armour Profile no. 29 on the Sherman for 23-in track and HVSS suspension. The figure he gives for the T-34 lies between the figures given in Armour Profile no. 47 on the T-34 for an early T-34/76 and T-34/85.

Loza says that the T-34 could "turn on a dime" , but the statement that it can do neutral turns is in a footnote by the translator. I think this is an error, as the relevant Profile says the T-34 has clutch-and-brake steering.

All the best,

John.

[SpitfireXI]

I am confused is the footnote an error or is the game in error? The footnote does mention that one track can go the opposite of the other.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by SpitfireXI:

I am confused is the footnote an error or is the game in error? The footnote does mention that one track can go the opposite of the other.

The game is "in error" (in that it does not perfectly match reality, but simulations are not supposed to do that) insofar as it permits Shermans to turn in place, which in real life they could not do.

The footnote is in error because it says that the T-34 could do a neutral turn, which it could not. It could "turn on a dime" (as could all clutch-and-brake tracked vehicles) by braking one track fully while letting the other track move, so Loza is right. It could not have one track being driven forward while the other was being driven backward, as that would require a proper Merritt-Brown type gearbox, so the translator (who supplied this footnote) is wrong.

All the best,

John.

[SpitfireXI]

Thanks for the clear-up.

[dieseltaylor]

Before getting too excited about ground pressure it should be borne in mind that it is a crude average of weight over track in contact with the ground. If memory serves me correctly MKIII and Tiger 1 & II were very well balanced with the weight evenly across the chassis and hence the tracks.

The MKIV was not good and the JpzIV poor. So I am afraid the only answer for RL performance is to look at the various tanks and seek good information.

I have quotes from combatants on the Western Front saying that the Tigers would skate across muddy fields that Shermans bogged in. Even the addition of paddles to widen the tracks did not bring them nearer to the Tigers performance.