Biltong's Campaign Rules

[uhu]

sorry, another question...

I read the last Biltong-topic before these, and see, that the upgrade is not bound to Biltaid. I thought, I could buy the upgrade from the favor. I won't be rude, but couldn't this inplemented into Biltaid?

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by uhu:

sorry, another question...

I read the last Biltong-topic before these, and see, that the upgrade is not bound to Biltaid. I thought, I could buy the upgrade from the favor. I won't be rude, but couldn't this inplemented into Biltaid?

Sorry I am lost. What are we talking about, which upgrade???

General comments:

Biltaid covers fully BCR rules vs 2.2 41 South.

Anything beyond is not covered, anything out of BCR vs 2.2 41 South is not covered. Knowledge of the rules IS given for granted.

Cheers

[Joachim]

Originally posted by uhu:

Thank you Scarhead for the quick help! (oder: Danke schön, Joachim! )

You're welcome (oder: Gern geschehen )

So, maybe will somebody nice and help me again. Please!

1., How exactly works the unit-buying?

My 2nd battle (immediately assault), the core point was 800. I could spend 125p for Inf, 40p for Veh, 125p for Armor and 400p for Artillery. BUT: the force and division type was infantry! So, as I understand, I can't buy any vehicles and armor. Other theme: in this case, at the fake-battle, the AI only bought 2 artillery spotters for less, than 200p.

At the real battle I bought than, what I could take from the list, but there were several hundred points left. Was this ok?

Set force type, nationality (and thus automatically IIRC) divvison type to unrestricted. Sometimes you will have trouble to spend your points from "large arty", but usually you can buy what you want.

If the AI did not buy tanks for division type infantry in the "dummy battle for selection of unit types", you can buy whatever you want from the armor menu. If the AI bought only a 81mm spotter and you have 700 pts for arty - buy the 81mm FO and whatever you want till the 700 pts (if CM says you only can buy 500 arty - tough luck, you loose those 200pts)

If your force calculation says you get 1010 pts, you have to chose 1250 pts for the qb. Now if you are assaulting, the difference will increase to (1250-1010)*1.7 = 408 pts. You can not spend these 408 pts. This is a bonus for the AI, as it will use all of his 1250 pts for the defense.

[/QB]

[uhu]

Well, thanks again: I see now the light at the end of the tunel

1., So, as I understand, the attached units + points for them are managed also with Biltaid.

2., Seahawk, I mean, the managing of the units-upgrade. How does it exactly work? As I understand, it is not managed in Biltaid. (example: PzIIIG -> PzIIIH, etc.)

Thanks,

Uhu

[uhu]

ok, one last question(for today ) :

How are the rules with not full strength units, vehicles? When should they go ofrom the map?

[uhu]

How will are the experience level and points of attached units calculated? Pleeeease.

[ June 14, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: uhu ]

[atiff]

[sigh]

Shifted to a new country recently, and one of the things I made sure I packed was my current BCR files so that I could continue my campaign in my new home. Well, at least I *thought* they were my current files - turns out they were the blank ones. So goodbye to 25 battles worth of playing [sniff] been over a month sice I played so I can't even remember what I had before [sniff]

Oh well, started a new campaign last night, will just have to work extra hard to "catch up" again

[ June 14, 2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: atiff ]

[Biltong]

Originally posted by uhu:

How will are the experience level and points of attached units calculated? Pleeeease.

Uhu - try downloading the rules and the player guide - It's all explained in there. There are too many rules to explain one by one on the board. It's better if you read them 1st

[uhu]

Dear Biltong, belive me, I have read many times the rules and tried undertand them, but almost hopelessly. / :confused: /

(..and that's not beacause I'm an low-IQ fighter )

With Biltaid it is much easier, but as you sea, there are several questions left.

I have read the older Biltong's topics. There are many answers on the questions. (but not for all ) It was mentioned, that a Biltong's FAQ should be made - I say, a Biltong's FAQ and a Blitaid FAQ. (But you, or Seahawk should make it!)

You were also speaking, that, if CMAK arrives, you will not make the Biltong's Rules - East Front more longer. That would be very sad, because CMAK will be surely a good game, but it's not such a big, long and various theater, as the east front. I don't think, that so much % of the Biltong's user would go over. I would also help to make it, but as I see, my english langue knowledge level is barely not high enogh.

Last word: I think Big Time Software should be reward you, and your helpers, (including Seahawk!!!) because, with your campaign system, the game is now much more enjoying (an that is a weak word for that!) in solo player mode. I think, the addict-level is about the same, as at Panzer General (1), and that says everything!

Uhu

PS1: Allright - after + 1/2 hours reading and searching, I now understand, how the normal replacement works. But...

PS2: ...I still got confused about the force size-thing: I calculate so, that I have may Battlegroup (Core + Attached), which is 654 + x (say: 80) Biltaid calculate to the battle 700 force size point. It is an assault, so I will have much more point, I can't calculate out now, but about 1300. I can buy 125 inf, 100 vehicles, 65 arty. So: I buy my Battlegroup, it is 734p. Than I buy, say 80 for inf, 40 for support, 80 vehicles, 50 arty. That is 894. So, the rest of the force-points are gone, right?

Another question: what is, if my battlegroup is bigger as, the calculated force size?

bye,

Uhu

[uhu]

Seahawk, I have an idea, in the theme of the experience level of the leaders:

I think, the leader abilities could also improve in the following way: every leader would have in regular level 2 abilites - for example: 1 moral, 1 command. (this would be played out with a 4 sieded die - or with the electronic die ) When becoming green, one ability would be gone (again calculate with a die...) in the cause of becoming veteran, two more abilitiy-points would be added to the leader (4 sided die). In the crack level again two more points.

[uhu]

sorry, there is a mistake in the post 2 above:

But NOT you, or Seahawk should make the FAQs!

bye,

Uhu

[Death Commando]

Can somebody explain to me thehe prisoner section in the Favor Sheet. I have captured 42 allies and confused on how to caculate them on the sheet.(1st/Theraft/HQ's).

Thanks.

[uhu]

Hi Death Commando!

In the rigth squares should you write the soviet captured forces. (as seen in the battles summary panel in CMBB) I'm not sure, but I think, you should write the number of captured soldiers. (42)

bye,

Uhu

[atiff]

Originally posted by Death Commando:

Can somebody explain to me thehe prisoner section in the Favor Sheet. I have captured 42 allies and confused on how to caculate them on the sheet.(1st/Theraft/HQ's).

Thanks.

The prisoner's section has, as you say, 1st/thereafter/HQ's, and then just below that 3x/1x/4x. For your first prisoner, you get 3 favour points. For each prisoner thereafter you get 1 favour point each. If any of those prisoners were HQ's, you get 4 favour per HQ man (instead of 3 for the first, and 1 for "thereafters").

Thus, if you captured 42 prisoners made up as follows: 29 in infantry squads, 10 in weapons crews and 3 in HQ units, you would get:

1x3=3 pts for first prisoner

38x1=38 for the basic "thereafters"

3x4=12 for the HQ men

If you captured only 2 HQ men, you would get:

2x4=8 for the 2 HQ men

If you captured 16 men, all normal infantry or crews, you get:

1x3=3 for first prisoner

15x1=15 for "thereafters"

OK?

[Joachim]

Originally posted by uhu:

PS2: ...I still got confused about the force size-thing: I calculate so, that I have may Battlegroup (Core + Attached), which is 654 + x (say: 80) Biltaid calculate to the battle 700 force size point. It is an assault, so I will have much more point, I can't calculate out now, but about 1300. I can buy 125 inf, 100 vehicles, 65 arty. So: I buy my Battlegroup, it is 734p. Than I buy, say 80 for inf, 40 for support, 80 vehicles, 50 arty. That is 894. So, the rest of the force-points are gone, right?

Another question: what is, if my battlegroup is bigger as, the calculated force size?

bye,

Uhu

If you play a 1000 pts battle with no initial casualties, the defender gets 1000 pts.

The assaulter gets 1700 points for a 1000pts battle(!), the attacker somewhat less (1400 or so), for a probe even less. The exact factors are in the force size calculation.

Same goes for casualties: If you start with 20% causalties, a 1000 pts battle on the defense will allow you to buy 1250 points: The casualties are subtracted before the battle from those 1250 points and you get

1250 * (100 - 20)/100 = 1250 *(1-0.2) = 1000 pts. (1)

Combining those effects, you get the formula that calculates the force size from the provisional force size:

Provisional points / Casualty factor / Battle Type factor = points allowed for battle. (2)

CM only allows for some fixed force sizes (..., 900, 100, 1250, 1500, 2000, ...), so you can't choose the exact amount calculated in formula (2).To ensure you can buy everything, you have to choose a number of pts that is bigger or equal than what you calculated.

Example:

Your core is 653

Your attached units is 80

Battle is assault (factor 1.7)

Casualties 20%

You get 100 inf, 100 armor and 100 arty.

So your provisional force size is 653+80+300 = 1033.

Force size is 1033*(1-0.2)/1.7 = 486.12 pts

IE you need a mere 486 pts to be able to buy your force of 1033 pts! (Which is actually worth 80% or 827.4 pts after your casualties are removed, and 486.12*1.7 = 827.4 pts

The points necessary to spend your 1033 points in CM are 500, which actually enable you to buy 500/0.8*1.7 = 1062.5 or 1063 pts.

If you've got the calculations right, you should never have to few points total to spend in CM what you are allowed to spend according to BCR. The only problem is the arty points, which are restricted. Choose unrestricted as force type and nation (ands thus division type), and you will be allowed to spend the max. If this is not enough for a given part of your force (usually arty) - tough luck, you loose the points.

The difference from points you are allowed to spend from BCR to CM is a bonus for the AI

Gruß

Joachim

PS: Hope I've got the formulas right, the manual is out of reach...

[ June 17, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[Death Commando]

Thanks atiff.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by uhu:

Seahawk, I have an idea, in the theme of the experience level of the leaders:

I think, the leader abilities could also improve in the following way: every leader would have in regular level 2 abilites - for example: 1 moral, 1 command. (this would be played out with a 4 sieded die - or with the electronic die ) When becoming green, one ability would be gone (again calculate with a die...) in the cause of becoming veteran, two more abilitiy-points would be added to the leader (4 sided die). In the crack level again two more points.

Heya Uhu,

there has been proposals for this to be implemented in the rules. It is as subjective and as controversial that it can get. I believe there someone is trying them out but in principle it is not against logic that some leader qualities could improve with experience.

Regarding the units upgrade: unsupported. There exist though a workaround. If you should decide to upgrade a units you may report that to BiltAid starting a custom campaign and entering the new upgraded unit in your Battlw Group.

[uhu]

Seahawk,

You are rigth, it's not a big theme to manage the leader abilites on paper. (about 4 word /names/ and 16 number I play now this way.

Attached units theme again:

As I know, the rules says, that I can buy inf, suport, vehicle, which rarity are not higher, then 40%. But: in Biltaid, when it ask you, what type of attached unit I have (bought), there isn't any square for vehicle or gun to mark. Where should they belong?

(In this theme I also would propose a random-die action: it would be much more real, if not the player would choose a unit - instead, he would get a random unit. The 40% rule would still exist.)

bye,

Uhu

[uhu]

Thanks Scarhead!

Althrough, I'm little confused, if all of this should I calculate (ok, it's not a big work ), or is it implemented in Biltaid? (So, these calculations must be done only in paper-version of BCR?)

gruss,

Uhu

[atiff]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by uhu:

Seahawk, I have an idea, in the theme of the experience level of the leaders:

I think, the leader abilities could also improve in the following way: every leader would have in regular level 2 abilites - for example: 1 moral, 1 command. (this would be played out with a 4 sieded die - or with the electronic die ) When becoming green, one ability would be gone (again calculate with a die...) in the cause of becoming veteran, two more abilitiy-points would be added to the leader (4 sided die). In the crack level again two more points.

Heya Uhu,

there has been proposals for this to be implemented in the rules. It is as subjective and as controversial that it can get. I believe there someone is trying them out but in principle it is not against logic that some leader qualities could improve with experience.

</font>

[Joachim]

Originally posted by uhu:

Thanks Scarhead!

Althrough, I'm little confused, if all of this should I calculate (ok, it's not a big work ), or is it implemented in Biltaid? (So, these calculations must be done only in paper-version of BCR?)

gruss,

Uhu

Well, I guess it is implemented. To avoid those calculations should be top priority for Biltaid . But I do not use Biltaid. Couldn't get the Java to start and didn't really try, as pen and paper work pretty fast for me.

Gruß

Joachim

[uhu]

Thanks Scarhead!

Seahawk!

Biltaid works also in another year of the war?

I made a probe, custom campaign, bougth some units, but there were several ways, why the campaign hasn't started:

1., I wrote several battles in -> End of '41 Campaign

2., (No battles before) -> when I hit the advance button, the program simply quits.

Is it a known issue, or the problem is in my machine? (otherways the program works fine)

bye,

Uhu

[uhu]

What is, if we have (in Biltaid) negative Favor?

It would be nice, that for example under -200, the campaign would and. ('we' would be replaced with another commander) Or at negative favor, we would get only low quality replacements, or even nothing.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by atiff:

...Yes, at the moment I am playing around with a very simple system for HQ improvement. Basically, every 10 battles I roll a dice for each HQ and see if they get an increase. 1d10; 1-2=Command increase, 3-4=Combat, 5-6=Morale, 7-8=Stealth, 9-10=nothing, bad luck! If they are maxed out in the thing they roll, they miss out, bad luck! I just write the number of battles the HQ has fought in next to the name on the Battlegroup sheet.

If it takes more than one (1) casualty, then I roll to see if it loses abilities (what you get like this, you should be able to lose too) I roll as above to see what it loses (if anything). If it takes more than 50% casualties (or dies), then it loses everything and goes back to 0 battles.

Fairly simple, yet allows progression. I don't base it off XP personally, but you could say "every 10 XP" rather than "every 10 battles." Eg, at 20 XP, 30 XP, etc, etc. (and similarly, if you drop below 20 XP,etc, you roll to lose an ability)

Nice simple system - I like

What do you other guys think?

BTW - Thanx for the support you're giving Atiff - Appreciated.

[atiff]

No problem. I've gotta give something back....

Or reflection, doing HQ "ability imporvement checks" every 10 (or whatever) XP is easier than doing by number of battles, as you con't have to record any extra information (ie, you already have the XP sitting there).

I am also giving XP to HQ's a little differently, as has been discussed in previous BCR threads. I give 1 XP to an HQ for surviving the battle, and 1 XP if "they did a good job in the battle" (instead of based on the number of casualties they cause). This is mostly subjective, and it is easier to list the instances when I DON'T give the extra XP point; they don't get it when:

- they suffer high casualties (about 30% or more of the men in their squads)

OR

- they don't capture (or defend) an objective (not necc a flag) that I set for them as part of my battle

OR

- they don't do anything useful combat-wise (no bonus XP for just walking somewhere); usually this means the squads have caused casualties that total less than 5-10.

- My company CO doesn't get the bonus XP point unless the battle result is a Major or Total Victory.

Seems to be working; the HQ's are of similar XP to the squads after half a dozen battles of following this scheme. IMHO this is the sort of result it should give; the whole platoon should be about the same level (barring exceptional cirumstances, such as one squad getting decimated and replaced with Greens).