Test about HQs

[postfux]

I ran some test (CMBB 1.03) concerning command and control, HQ bonus and spotting ranges. Since the results are quite exact and, at least to me, interesting i thought i should share them.

In the first test i just tried out the effictive range of HQs and the command delay for the subordinatet unit. Regular HQs without a command bonus can influence other units up to 50 meters. For each level of experience of the HQ this is increased or decreased by 5 meters. A +1 bonus adds 50% a +2 100%. Without LOS the range is decreased by 50%. Command delay depends on the bonus of the HQ and the experience level of the commanded untit. Experience level of the HQ is not relevant except to its own delay, but it gets benefit out of its own bonus.

In the second test i let some units march towards other units stationary and unhidden in "Steppe" (high grass?) altering unit types and C&C. For one thing nothing seems to increase the ability to spot enemy units (tried altering experience, C&C and some different unit types) except binos. The stealth ability of a unit is influenced by experience level and C&C. The experience level of the HQ is irrelevant, except for spotting the HQ itself and the stealth bonus is effective even when all units are moving (thought the handbook told otherwise). Numbers are irrelevant as full squads, half squads and tank hunters get spotted at exactly the same distance. Some results: Moving Regular Infantry in the open without C&C gets spotted at 635 m, in C&C with +2 stealth they close to 360 m. Elite infantry without C&C: 365, +2: 230. I didnt try out heavy weapons, only sharpshooters with an impressing result: regular, out of C&C: 85 m. He was even able to spot the stationary infantry in better cover before the saw him.

I for sure did prove to have too much time and hope the results are interesting to at least some of you.

[Joachim]

The first part is known. There are some tables somewhere. (Dunno where).

But the 2nd test is interesting. Who acted as spotters? Plain inf or binoc equipped teams?

Did it help to halt the spotters fpr a few seconds/minutes to look for stationary inf?

Where the tank hunters moving in the test when thy got spotted just as full squads? Does numbers affect spotting of stationary units? Are small teams more stealthy in better cover?

My impression is that teams with binocs will spot stationary targets much better when halted. Teams without binos get a lower bonus for being stationary.

Gruß

Joachim

[Redwolf]

I can confirm the above test results, in particular part 2.

HOWEVER, I highly recommend that you do not research this stuff in more detail. The spotting model in CM is simpler than you think and even discovering what I did before I stopped spoiled the game for me. Don't go there.

Joachim, unit size is irrelevant, except for sharpshooters which are harder to spot. Make sense since you don't want to have players gain an advantage from spiltting a squad and running two half-squads over. That would make sense if there was a probability-based chance of spotting units in LOS, but there is not, or the probability is barely noticable.

[postfux]

Joachim, spotters where plain inf only. The units to spot where moving without stopping until fired upon. However when running the sharpshooter test they spotted the spotters instantly at the starting line and lost contact once they were moving. Contact was reestablished shortly before beeing slaughtered at about 85 m. I guess binocs only work when stationary. I also had the impression units get spotted as soon as the parameters are fullfilled, so there seems to be no chance factor in spotting, as redwolf also noted.

redwolf, some dark secrets should surely stay hidden to the end of times or the next game engine but tasting the forbidden fruit i learned a lot about building scouting partys thus increasing the fun for me. Dont know if i can resist crossing some more lines, given the time.

[arax3]

Thanks! A3

[danielh]

Postfux,

The spotting test is of very limited value in actual battle. I ran stealth test vs. regular enemy HQ (platoon). Out to 800 m every single unit was instantly spotted when moved (Move to Contact command used), no difference was found regarding troop experience to that range. Only the Sharpshooter unit(Vet) can close to around 300 m in open. No difference betw. Open and Steppe (July). But what is really disturbing is the fact that all the units remain visible after movement even in steppe for all subsequent turns, although they do no further movement. Next CM needs really improvement in this area. Test was done in perfect flat terrain. All HQ-units without any stealth bonuses, maybe this might have some influence, but cetainly not within to inf combat range (< 300 m).

Greets

Daniel

[postfux]

Hi Daniel

This is interesting. When i ran my test there where without doubt differences regarding troop quality and my sharpshooter did much better than yours. I tested in CMBB 1.03, perhaps you had another version, game?

Remaining visible after stopping movement shouldnt happen. I didnt test on this one.

The test and his results are next to worthless in combat (and in countless other occasions). Troop quality and HQ bonus could be deciding during scouting or for closing in in good cover. I think this depends largely on terrain acting as LOS block only or as giving some adittional bonus. Any findings on this?

[danielh]

Hi Postfux,

I've tested 1.03, my test was only vs. enemy Platoon HQ-units. Your test indicates normal inf-squad, or am i wrong ?

To the praxis. I always check for stealth bonuses for my foremost advancing troops. Versus AI in defense i can close to within 300-400m depending on terrain shape in generally open terrain. However Tanks spot much, much better. I usually use veteran Sharpshooters for ahaed Recon, they can regularly close to within 300m even in open ground. I always have some HQ-units in good spotting positions.

Greets

Daniel

[xerxes]

Are you all testing on Extreme FOW? Makes a bit of a difference.

[danielh]

Xerxes, i never do something else in CMBB than extreme FOW.