Arti Spotter's delay ; Russ training 200

[Bongokid]

Hello,

I have a quick question about arti spotters, related to JasonC 's scenario 200:

In this scenario russians have two spotters. the only difference between them is that one is conscript and the other green.

When i plan the russian attack, one possibility is to launch a strike on the first turn, which can be done with either spotter (corresponding to a fireplan). The problem is, at least for the second objective (more at the back of the map), a strike would not be (IMO) usefull before the middle of the battle.

Here's my question: is there a way to know in advance the delay corresponding to a spotter. In this scenario, I discovered that one has 8 min. and the other 25 min. for the latter, only fireplan is therefore usefull since the battle length is 25 turns. To discover these delays i had to wait for the beginning of the second turn and target something with the spotters, at what time i can't use fireplan anymore and, in this case, one of the spotter is useless.

thanks for any insight,

Bongokid

[ September 01, 2006, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Bongokid ]

[Wicky]

Pg 128 of the CMBB manual

"Artillery Changes -

Strikes plotted on turn one can arrive immediately, or optionally you can delay the arrival of such planned strikes by adding one minute at a time.

Strikes planned on turn one cannot be adjusted or canceled later. They continue to fall even if the FO was eliminated in the meantime.

If the FO canít see the target, two minutes are added to the strike delay (unlike previously where the time ticked down at half speed). This does not apply to pre-planned strikes on game turn one."

No way of knowing from within the game the delay - but somewhere on the interweb is a website/database/excel chart of the approx delays in these kind of circumstances. The same happened to me in this scenario and I just played through without the long delay arty, however the next time I played it certainly got used

[ September 01, 2006, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[Bongokid]

Thanks for the tips

I also read the instruction in the manual :

you can delay the arrival of such planned strikes by adding one minute at a time. [/QB]

However, I can't find how to add minutes. When i press pause (P) after choosing the target on turn 1, i can only add from 10sec to 60sec.

Bongokid

[z-warfare]

Hit 'Q' to delay plan fire.

[Der Alte Fritz]

In this scenario, the 122mm Howitzers are supposed to be targeted on the main woods on move one and to use the 'Q'button to delay and to land about the time you expect your infantry to arrive in the area, say about move 15 to 20. The 120mm mortars is supposed to be used with LOS (and hence a shorter delay) on perhaps one or two infantry concentrations.

cheers

[Bongokid]

Thanks !

Bongokid

[JasonC]

Yes use the 122s for map fire, yes delay with QQQ. But no, the delay doesn't have to be "until you arrive", it can just be used to reduce the outgoing fire you experience from those woods. I frequently order the strike to start around turn 8-10. It takes 4 minutes for all the shells to land, and turn 20 would be way too late.

[Der Alte Fritz]

Thanks! I had forgotten that part.

cheers

[Bongokid]

Well, While I am at it, here's a question regarding the overall strat for this scenario :

The three ? that remain for me after several trials of scenario 200 (and a major victory obtained):

- Is it possible to save the three tanks ? If i don't 'cheat' and area fire the german gun's location, he always gets at least one of the T34s before destroyed

- What is the best way to silence these darn MGs in the left trench that are able to disrupt most of forward movement in the center of the map. I concentrate the 2 50mm mortars and 2 MGs on them but they still are not completely suppressed.

- What is the best attack route to the final objective : I tend to use the right way in the woods, but i think i need to work my knowledge about 'reserve' force because at 5 turns before the end my squads start to leave the woods with so very few ammo and at least in a 'tired state' after having to clear the wood themselves.

Thanks for these scenarios by the way. At last I feel like i'm learning progressively how tactical warfare is to be performed.

Bongokid

[JasonC]

The PAK usually kills a T-34 being found. If your remaining tanks and your mortars then KO the gun in response, you are sitting pretty.

If instead you cower the tanks around the right edge, you can avoid LOS to the PAK, while your mortars try to deal with it.

The best way to deal with the MGs on the left is to have already KOed the PAK! Then you waltz up to full spotting range - 100-150m out - with one of the T-34s, and the MGs shut up the easy way or the hard way. (With the AI, always the hard way).

If the MGs have been silenced, the infantry main body can readily advance to the center rough area. Only a platoon or so fits on the right flank route.

Without distant help, the Germans along the right flank route are not remotely strong enough to stand up to your combined force. They can mess up the front squads of a platoon sent that way, and pin the rest of it if they are lucky. But then you can drop the kitchen sink on them and they pin. A platoon then closes and they are gone.

Artillery on the central woods reduces the defenders there easily. With the AI in command, it frequently leaves cover foolishly, too. Regardless, you can suppress the tongue of scattered trees at the right end of the main block of woods, and then send a platoon around the right end of the wire, into them. You should have infantry overwatch from the rough and the right side woods at that point.

A few shooters are to be expected, but they can't stop you. They hurt one unit each and then you blow them away.

It is all naturally much harder if you lose to the PAK - which is a major lesson in escalation chains and combined arms. You can still win by shying off to the right, away from the German heavy weapons fire. The HMGs are still very annoying, but they don't have the ammo to kill your whole company at over 300m range. They can however pin it for 10-15 minutes, easily, if you don't have a live tank to take them out.

[Bongokid]

Thanks for the tips !

My major victoy was indeed when I sent a T34 almost in the trench after having killed the AT gun: it wiped the MGs out properly. However, I'm worried what would have happened if the german had hidden a bazooka team in the trench...

For that reason, each time i played, i tried to send a reduced platoon to approach the trench before any tank closed in, to avoid the potential bazooka surprise, however, it took almost 15 turns for the platoon to reach the trench, at what time the MGs there surely had had enough time to empty their ammo on my other units elswhere on the map.

Bongokid

[JasonC]

When worried about schrecks, you can still advance a tank close enough to see the trench - typically 175 meters or so. Then immediately hit the trench with area fire. Overwatch with foot MGs farther back - those will pick up an AT team relatively quickly, and the chance of a first round hit at 175 or more is pretty low.

*Then* send the infantry up. See, now when the MGs fire they will be spotted by the T-34 and dealt with rapidly. If they stay quiet (human only, AI will fire) the infantry gets into shellholes within ID range, and then send up one half squad (after a little tank prep fire).

It is a mistake to always send infantry first trying to spare the tanks. Tanks are powerful weapons and you have to let them carry their own weight. Don't baby them. Infantry advancing over open steppe into hidden HMG fire is great combined arms for the enemy - don't just give it to him.

If you avoid literally running the tanks into the trenches, the procedure will work fine. An occasional lost tank to a schreck is possible, but more often there won't be one there and you will silence MGs, or it will miss its first shot and get pinned before it gets off another, and you will bag it too. No risks, no gains.

[Bongokid]

OK, all this makes good sense,

Cheers,

bongokid