reality check...

[-avedon-]

..By looking at different direction. We see Finland that had kind of two 'conflicts' (full warfare), with the red atmy and the soviets.

Among your calculations is good to remind yourself, How on earth the Finnish troops repelled soviet armoured assaults. If pure numbers is your focuspoint, we could't/couldn't have. We had no tanks, light gunnery compared, no air superiority and a thousant km's long border. There was a popultion of 4 million, and land covered by woods neverending. The strenght of finn. Army was quite high- 500 000 men. I must say the finns in this engine have great disadvantages.

Often soviets bombarded Finnish civilians -but cities maybe were too small and waste. Attack of 900 sovets bombers caused 4 casualties and so on. On the otherhand, finns surrounded huge enemy concentrations and attacked to destroy them. Often when battles were fought -corpses of hundrends of enemy were found. In some cases 75 Tanks and 100 vehicles.

And then methods: by sachel charges, molovs and and mines. Small artillery and often foreign colunteers had arrived to help The Finns, whp had for over 100 days repelled the attack of 100's of thousands of soviets. Sometimes supported by 80 panzers.

Finnish defenses were also built well in advance -so called 'million fortresses' were scattered around the forests. They costed a million a piece, thats where the name originated. One was calculated to take 85 direct hits from a 80mm field cannon -until surrendered.

Try this in CM2 and let those soviets kick your ass! Otherwise the finnish sounds etc. are exellent. But realism takes a hit, when winning by finnish infantry seems hard.

This was not spoken as an insult, a history essay or because FINLAND is the home of TRUE WARRIORS! Simply to appoint that many variables apply in war and stronger may walk to an easy victory or to a trap.

Temperature was -30c and men slept outside in a trenches -how to apply these things to the engine?

I dont know...

[Pzman]

CM does not take nation "ablities" into account. Just as it does not take on the uber German soldier theory.

[Bone_Vulture]

Your reality check just bounced.

[JonS]

I thought it was the toothpicks :confused:

[JonS]

Originally posted by Kurben Uberhund:

But realism takes a hit, when winning by finnish infantry seems hard.

I hope you don't think that it was easy for the Finns to 'win' (= draw) against the Soviets? Also, many of the factors that assisted the Finns are, as they say, outside the scope. CM models what happens at the pointy sharpy end. All the higher level stuff, where the Sovs are generally held to have sucked, and the Germans did suck later in the war, aren't modelled. So, taking a German example, CM doesn't model that 2/3rd of the Panther bn moving towards your unit never arrived because of sux0rz supply organisation and interdiction, it just has the designated unit arriving - fully supplied - and slamming into your unit.

Good scenario planning and design can mitigate and allow for many of those higher factors. But you'll probably still have to play well, just as the Finns had to fight well from 39-44.

Regards

JonS

[Panzer76]

Another Uber Finn, welcome!

As JonS says, CM does not simulate poor higher command leadership. On the tactical level, you can always give the russians conscript experience, and your Finnish uber troops (hihi) Veteran or crack.

You know, man for man, the humans are pretty much the same. What makes them different is training and motivation. This can be simulated by experience.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Originally posted by Kurben Uberhund:

Among your calculations is good to remind yourself, How on earth the Finnish troops repelled soviet armoured assaults.

that's a huge subject, but a simplified answer would be: by isolating the Soviet tanks from the infantry that was supposed to support them. if you do this, have Soviets attack just with tanks in a map with lots of woods etc, you should be able to destroy those tanks quite easily with your infantry.

I must say the finns in this engine have great disadvantages.

i don't agree with you. for example in reality Finnish infantry was quite shaky and withdrew a lot, while Soviets usually fought to the last man both in offence and defence. that was good from the Finnish viewpoint, because Finns lived to fight the other day, while Soviets died a lot.

if Finns have disadvantages in Combat Mission, it is because in general defending infantry is in disadvantage against tanks in Combat Mission. it's not just Finns.

And then methods: by sachel charges, molovs and and mines.

Panzerfausts, Panzerschreks, AT-guns, massive artillery fires, Stukas, tanks (captured Soviet ones and German StuGs)...

But realism takes a hit, when winning by finnish infantry seems hard.

it WAS hard.