AA Guns Less than Useless Against Aircraft!

[Radrick]

Now that I have your attention, here's the deal. I've been playing a few games against my regular opponent and it seems that aircraft are very powerful and flak guns don't seem to help.

Consider our current game, my opponent chose 17 (yes 17) :eek: German early war 37mm flak vehicles. I chose a Yak-9 (I think) with rockets. Not only did my aircraft brave the potential volley of flak, he managed to destroy 4 AA vehicles on the first pass. I thought that he would have been intimidated by the amount of on-board AA guns and not return, but no....next turn he returned to destroy another 3 or 4 vehicles with rockets!

Does this seem fair / realistic / normal?

My opponent chose a JU-87G (Stuka) which has been very effective against my defences. It has so far destroyed 2 out of 3 half tracks that were armed with quad .50 cal MGs.

Other threads seem to have suggested that aircraft are not that great, but my experience seems to suggest otherwise.

Opinions?

[kenfedoroff]

I haven't had much luck with AA vehicles on either side, but have had moderate success with fixed AA units.

If I am able to place my AA so they can pick up the target and track it for a while, they will sometimes even get a kill.

Ken

[Bergerbitz]

I agree that the AA vehicles have trouble with hitting anything in the air. I've had good luck with a 20mm Quad Flak that bravely defended a platoon of Tigers against multiple IL-2 attacks in a recent scenario.

I couldn't say the same for the PzIV F's that were hit, though...but the Tigers were well-defended.

That brave AA gun was credited with two kills at the end of it all.

I've heard/read that IL-2's were notoriously hard to bring down because of all the armour they had. I'd have to find the facts to verify this, though.

[Doodlebug]

Conversely my experience is one of moderate success. I actually bought a Quad 50 HT for the first time which saw off my opponents aircraft quite nicely. I placed it on a hillside with a good field of fire overlooking my armoured assets which I figured would be the prime target for any attack. Lo and behold the Luftwaffe duly appeared and commenced an attack run taking a few bursts of fire as he made one pass and vanished pronto. My gunners managed to get a good long look at the plane and engage it into and away from the target.

[winkelried]

On the average I don't see any difference between vehicles and fixed guns, although I mostly play the Soviet side. The M17 usually are quite ok. Best is to position them (and AAGs in general) in scattered trees. This reduces the visibility to aircraft considersably (at least it seems so).

[PiggDogg]

Guys,

AA guns do not have to kill enemy airplanes to be effective. If one has even one AA, they have a tendency to cause the planes to be more inaccurate than without the AA guns.

Generally, place one's AA guns in scattered woods, on hills, with a fair to good LOS up & about, and, if necessary, on the reverse slopes away from enemy obervation.

If the enemy has air, any AAs are a true benefit.

Cheers, Richard

[flamingknives]

Radrick, What version of CMBB are you playing?

From what I've seen in 1.03, AA guns seem to get rid of aircraft quite nicely, with the possible exception of Stormaviks. But then hey, that's how it was.

In fact, A quad 20mm and a couple of AA halftracks saw off one aircraft and destroyed another (types unknown) in a QB I played today.

[Sgt. Schultz]

I have had a crack Russian 37mm drive off one Henschel and then shoot down another. Of course, the next Henschel that arrived duly sprinkled 70+ cluster bombs across my brave 37mm and destroyed it in a vengance attack.

Although this is probably a "tips and tricks" kind of discussion, I will relate what works for me. This is a adefensive thing, as you have to expose your armor on attack.

One cheap tank in the open, gaurded by your AAA. Hide the other armor assets in best cover available. The enemy plane will come and attack the cheapo armor and draw fire from the AAA. CMBB planes just seem to love attacking armor and AAA 1st, so this will occupy the enemy air assets quite nicely.

It seems to me that defenders have the advantage in the air war, as the planes come on early in a QB and will attack friendly armor if that is what they see 1st. Defenders can hide until the planes are gone/destroyed, and then come rumbling out.

[dieseltaylor]

Works for me! Recent game one pass one M17 and the plane never came back.

I do wonder where you had placed your AA guns - is there a secret we should know? Where they all grouped closely?, in plane site? [i couldn't resist] Was it V1.03?

[lewallen]

I've been playing a lot of Il-2 Sturmovik (very good recent WWII flight sim, for those who don't know) lately, and I laugh at small-caliber AAA. A single quad-20mm or even a couple of them isn't much deterrent, especially to an Il-2, and it can take several 20mm hits to signifigantly damage an airplane (i.e. to a point where it must abort the mission) much less destroy it outright. Halftrack-mounted single 20mm and MGs are even less effective. Thus the general ineffectiveness of AAA in CMBB makes sense to me now, though when I first played CMBB, it seemed to be unrealistically worthless.

Just my $.02.

~Sam

[CrapGame]

I've had a 20mm halftrack KO two planes in one battle versus the Allies, so I tend to buy at least one AA weapon in every battle. They are a hindrance to accuracy at the very minimum.

[Redwolf]

Before the 1.03 patch the AA halftracks would engage aircraft only at 1500m or more. Since that includes the turn time the typical CM battle map size did not leave much room. Towed guns worked normally.

I didn't test what the 1.03 patch really did about this.