Mad Russian Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Which was the first German combat unit into Stalingrad? What day was that? Where did you find that information? Thanks ahead of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 16th Panzer Division They came close on August 23, but were definitely in by August 24. Craig's "Enemy at the Gates" [ February 19, 2006, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: stoat ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 1. and 2. The assault on Stalingrad began at 0415 hours on the morning of the 23rd. The starting line was 60 km from city limits, depending of course on how you prefer to define Stalingrad city limits. By the fall of darkness, Pz.Gren.Rgt 79 had reached point 722 - it had already taken Gumrak by then. At 1835 hours the same regiment reached the Volga. So did an assault detachment of PzGren.Rgt.64, and indeed the armoured element of Pz-Pi-Btl.16. The later managed to reach the railway station with the 27 abandoned waggons before midnight. So, pick your choice, where you would have city limits. In the official announcement, the unit mentioned as first into Stalingrad is "Kampfgruppe Pz.Gen.Rgt.79". (All units mentioned were part of PD16) 3. All this from "Stalingrad, bis zur letzten patrone" Osnabrück 1954 written by Heinz Schröter, chief of the Kriegsberichterstaffel AOK6, in cooperation with General a.D. Fr. Joachim Fangohr (cheif of staff 4 PzAOK), General der Flieger a.D. Koller (Chief of staff Luftwaffe), General a.D. Schulz (chief of staff Heeresgruppe Don), Oberst a.D. Selle (Pifü of AOK6), Oberstl.i.G.a.D. Toepke (Qu.I AOK6). Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCHRD Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The 16th Pz reached the Volga at Rynok, the second of two small villages north of the tractor factory. There is a good 3D map of this area at a website called fireonthevolga, I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 Originally posted by Dandelion: 1. and 2. The assault on Stalingrad began at 0415 hours on the morning of the 23rd. The starting line was 60 km from city limits, depending of course on how you prefer to define Stalingrad city limits. By the fall of darkness, Pz.Gren.Rgt 79 had reached point 722 - it had already taken Gumrak by then. At 1835 hours the same regiment reached the Volga. So did an assault detachment of PzGren.Rgt.64, and indeed the armoured element of Pz-Pi-Btl.16. The later managed to reach the railway station with the 27 abandoned waggons before midnight. So, pick your choice, where you would have city limits. In the official announcement, the unit mentioned as first into Stalingrad is "Kampfgruppe Pz.Gen.Rgt.79". (All units mentioned were part of PD16) 3. All this from "Stalingrad, bis zur letzten patrone" Osnabrück 1954 written by Heinz Schröter, chief of the Kriegsberichterstaffel AOK6, in cooperation with General a.D. Fr. Joachim Fangohr (cheif of staff 4 PzAOK), General der Flieger a.D. Koller (Chief of staff Luftwaffe), General a.D. Schulz (chief of staff Heeresgruppe Don), Oberst a.D. Selle (Pifü of AOK6), Oberstl.i.G.a.D. Toepke (Qu.I AOK6). Cheerio Dandelion Is this the force that took the Big Mushroom position just to the west of Rynok? Also, do you have any idea which German unit was the first one into Stalingrad from the south? Judging from the maps I have I would think it would have to be from 14th Panzer, 24th Panzer, 19th Motorized or 94th Infantry. I have a photo (in a book) taken near the Grain Elevator that shows a PzIII sitting in the foreground. The photo has a caption that reads, "first penetration." As you pointed out, this is all dependant on what one considers Stalingrad. Apparently, the German High Command considered Rynok as being Stalingrad, since that is the point and time that they record having entered the city. If so I'm thinking that the overrunning of the 37 Soviet antiaircraft gun positions must have taken place at the position known as the Big Mushroom. Any details that you have about that would be appreciated. I know the Soviet unit was manned by women factory workers and that they had no training in using the guns against ground targets. I think I even have the Soviet AA unit number somewhere. Just curious if you have anything more concrete about if they were actually positioned in the Big Mushroom position. Thanks ahead of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 What is the best book source for good city maps of WWII era Stalingrad? I have some maps that I found online but what I would like are maps with details like street names, names of railways and a lot of other detail, not just the major battle sites. I'll share what I found so far: maps via rapidshare The books I have are Beevor, Stalingrad; Hoyt, 199 Days; and Rotundo, ed. Battle for Stalingrad--1943 Soviet General Staff Study. All are excellent (especially the latter) but none have very good maps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Originally posted by Preserved Killick: What is the best book source for good city maps of WWII era Stalingrad? I have some maps that I found online but what I would like are maps with details like street names, names of railways and a lot of other detail, not just the major battle sites. I'll share what I found so far: maps via rapidshare The books I have are Beevor, Stalingrad; Hoyt, 199 Days; and Rotundo, ed. Battle for Stalingrad--1943 Soviet General Staff Study. All are excellent (especially the latter) but none have very good maps. That site seems to only be an advertisement for rapidshare. I didn't find any place to actually download the zip file. There are several sites on the internet. Here are a few. Hope this helps. http://www.777avg.com/maps/ http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps/maps1942SW.htm#Stalingrad42 http://mapww2.narod.ru/ http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_maps.htm http://battle.volgadmin.ru/osn_eng.asp?np=21 http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/map_index.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Thanks. There are some great sites in that mix, but no street maps that I could find. I can't read Russian, either, although I can read German ok (in case anyone knows some German sites). But they will definitely help with regards to the OOB of the scenario that I am building. If you want the maps I uploaded to rapidshare, scroll down the page that the link directs you to and click "free". That will take you to the link to DL the zip. There's probably nothing that great in there--considering the links you have at hand you may have seen all the maps I uploaded. Although the one of Pavlov's house is pretty cool--I spent some time editing out someone's idiotic watermarks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Nope I have never seen a map with street names on it and if I did I would expect them to be in Russian. I don't read Russian either. Where is the one on Pavlov's House? I missed that one. I have pictures of the house itself but I have no idea where it is in the city. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Preserved Killick, Email me and I'll see if I can help you out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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