Amedeo Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 What are the sources for the new armour values for the hull front in the 1944 model of the Iosif Stalin tank? I found 120mm+100mm (hupper and lower hull respectively), 105mm+127mm or also 100mm+100mm but never 120mm+120mm. Moreover, the DOI for the BR-471B APBC was changed to Feb. '45. Was this an educated guess? I know that there are sources that states the round was first issued in January 1945, other sources that say that the round was available only at the very end of the war in Europe. Please notice that I'm not saying that BFC modelled these things incorrectly, I'm just wondering about the existence of new or different sources (maybe more accurate) than the ones I'm aware of. Regards, Amedeo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill S. Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 the sources are Russian language websites: http://krieg.wallst.ru/ - for the Armor Diagrams http://krieg.wallst.ru/images/panzer/js-2-1.gif to be precise http://wardays.narod.ru/ - for the APBC availability yes, I took part in the research [edit: it seems that the lower hull value was left as 120/30, while it should be 100/30, but the upper hull value is correct ] [ February 15, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Kirill S. ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 Kirill, if I'm not mistaken, the site you're referring to, said that the BR-471B was introduced in spring 1945 and available in quantity only later. I cannot comment on this site realiability, but I think you noticed that they wrongly spelt 'Iosif' as 'Iosiv' On the yahoo tankers' forum it was said that in an ISU-122 manual (dated Jan. '45) it was depicted also the 122mm APBC round. Anyway it seems that the issue is still to be solved. Moreover, why in v1.02 the rear turret MG is not present in late IS-2 variants? Bye, Amedeo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill S. Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 yes, the Rear Mg thing is kinda confusing because this site: http://krieg.wallst.ru/images/panzer/js-2.gif clearly shows the rear MG present. The Rear MG is shown on all the models in game, while the only tank that doesn't have it in description is the latest IS-2, which has a coaxial and a flexible. BUT, the top mounted DShK flexible MG was rarely put on the tank, don't know why, but BTS decided to keep it on. so here is a discrepancy of the latest IS-2 not having a turret rear mg and having a rarely used flexible mg... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl_Smasher Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 This was also posted ast the tankers forum "The sloped variant has 100mm cast armor both on the lower and upper front hull. There was also the parallel production run with 90mm RHA instead of 100mm cast. You (or whatever sources you are quoting) have clearly confused the early version, which indeed had a 120mm superstructure thickness but at @30degrees. For very simple geometrical reasons it is just impossible to provide a level of protection of 120mm@60 degrees while staying in the same armor mass. Posted by Vasiliy Fofanov, who is a friend of russian historian svirin, who I tend to trust more than an internet diagram. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted February 16, 2003 Author Share Posted February 16, 2003 Karl, in fact I was referring also to that quote when I said that I saw also sources that said the front armour was 100mm@60° upper + 100mm@30° lower. Moreover, IIRC, there was also an ongoing debate on the effective thickness of the gun mantlet. Anyway, regardless of what source is to be believed, the current stats for the late IS-2 tanks should be changed, at least regarding the lower front hull thickness and the rear MG. (I think that also the front turret and the APBC DOI might be worth of reconsideration, but it's possible that final and authoritative data on these issues will not available for a while). Regards, Amedeo P.S. Still wondering why the 45mm cannister round isn't in the game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 *BUMP* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 The IS-2 tank poses quite a few problems for the CM engine. Not only is there that flexible turret rear mg, there's also the rigid-mount forward hull mg that can only be aimed by the driver moving the vehicle! I sincerely doubt that CM models the latter, and the rear-mounted turret mg (fired by the loader?) is of almost no use tactically, unless you've got infantry literally climbing up your engine deck. I believe I heard CM's IS-2 hull front stats were taken from the British. Russian cast armor specs are very hard to nail down. There was a great deal of variation from one plant to the next, one vehicle to the next. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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