Squads out of control

[Nickelback]

Hey guys, I finally loaded up my copy of CMBB (I have been happy with CM all these years by itself) , anyways I am having trouble keeping some of my pioneers under control.

Basically in my current battle I have 3 squads on their bellies just below the ridge on a steep hill, I moved them forward to make contact and exchange fire with the enemies I knew where in the trees 50M on the top of the hill.

Now when these guys starting taking fire (I have no move commands at this time) they start sneaking forward towards the enemy. I have no idea why they are doing this but I cannot stop them from basically committing suicide. I want them to hold and fire where they are because I have more guys moving in from behind the enemy.

But if I look at their move commands after the turn is over, they all have sneak commands directly to and past the enemies...

Is there a reason this is happening in CM2? Like I said above I have been happy with CM all these years and the only times I would lose control of units like this is if I asked them to do something insane directly, or if they broke/ were green etc. etc. then they would plot their own moves and do whatever.

Thanks.

[zukkov]

it's the new morale model. units that take cover will often sneak towards cover. unfortunately, they don't recognize hill slopes as cover so they don't just backup to their original hiding places behind the ridge...

[Bannon DC]

Wow... why did you wait so long? CMBB (or whatever version you bought) is a vast improvement in my opinion. Especially with armor.

It sounds like your Pioneers are taking fire and reacting as they are programmed. I assume they are in "open" terrain and they are seeking the nearest cover. The AI does not realize that best cover would be out of LOS of the enemy. The AI is still very simplistic in many of these regards.

You may be taking too much enemy fire for your tactic to work. Look around for any terrain other than open... even "brush" or "rocky" offers a little cover which may make your men less likely to seek their own cover.

[JasonC]

... And when it happens, just zero out the "sneak" with backspace. Do not attempt to substitute a different move order, rate, or direction. Just tell them to halt and fire.

Part of the problem you are having is that the range is so short. When infantry takes fire it will hold position in open ground only if the fire isn't too hot. Once hit reasonably hard, they head for cover. They are also more likely to do this if they were moving when shot at.

It is called "cover panic". The men are effectively panicking over their lack of cover while taking dangerous fire. CMBB and AK infantry basically believes they are only supposed to trade fire with the enemy from positions of cover, that it is too dangerous to try to do so from open ground (unless not under much fire personally). This isn't always correct, but you have to plan around it being what they will do, regardless of your wishes in the matter.

You can still get men to firefight enemies from open ground. But only when the "incoming" is scattered or weak. E.g. at long range, or vs. only a few shooters, or outnumbering the enemy in number of units, while also being well spread out to avoid suppression by nearby shots (greater than 25m from the nearest target).

It also helps to use "advance" orders when you have to move. Units with "advance" orders are much less likely to veer off looking for cover than units using "move". Units trying to "run" are the most likely of all, to experience "cover panic" if fired upon. "Run" is risky and only meant to be used out of sight of the enemy.

The way to work a large number of units under fire while in the open, is to let a few of them that take the shots go to ground (even hiding, if the range is long, in steppe or wheat or brush especially useful). They don't try to advance again until they've had a breather. The others shoot back or use short "advances", about 50m each, pausing between about the length of a command delay or the leftovers between turns.

The result is most of the units shot at will be using "advance", some will be firing back while stationary, all will have a chance to recover after any hit. Spread over many units and several minutes, you can readily absorb moderate fire and the group as a whole will still make progress - even if a few squads pin.

But trying to firefight an equal number of enemy shooters at 50m, when they are in cover and you aren't, is just something typically CMBB&AK infantrymen are not willing even to attempt. It is more than you can ask of them.

I hope this helps.

[Redwolf]

In CMBB 1.02 the code was changed so that giving a halt and hide(!) command would decrease the TacAI's tendency to order random idiotic sneak commands. If you don't have them hide, even when they are already laying down, then this is not in effect, so say "hide" even if it doesn't seem to do anything.

That's the only thing you can do. It will prevent them from exhausting under sneak and it won't let them crawl closer to the enemy fire source.

To get them out of there you need to eliminate the fire source. Unfortunately, even shooting larger smokescreens doesn't really allow you to free them for a safe retreat in CM.

[Nickelback]

Thanks for the replies, it looks like since things changed in CM2 (and I am still used to CM) that's where the problems are coming from.

A big problem was that they were coming over a ridge and the enemy would instantly see them, there was no cover whatsoever (only cliffs on one side and open terrain on the other).

So I ended up firing some random mortar rounds into the enemy position (I wanted to save them since they were very limited) and was able to get the 3 squads above the ridge. 2 of them hit the ground being under fire, however I was able to get the last to hold and supress the enemy long enough to get the other 2 moving again. I was able to advance them enough to toss some grenades and rush their position.

Thanks for the help.

Bannon- I have had my copy of CMBB for quite sometime but my friend still only has CM and we PBEM alot. So I never really got around to loading it up.

[junk2drive]

you could buy the cmak cmbb bundle and give a bb to your friend.

[Zarquon]

Is this a pre-made scenario? If your squads keep crawling *towards* the enemy, it might be due to setup parameters, if the "friendly maps edges" were set the wrong way, i.e. you come from the west but your frindly map edge is set to east.

[mrpwase]

It's more likely to be cover panic - it's only if they're broken that they start to move to their own edge.