Abbott Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I have always thought the 30+ turn limit a bit short, this one went 31 turns. 40 turns would make the battle a bit easier for the Russian player. Still I have always liked this offering from Rune. It is a enjoyable scenario with a fun mix of units for both sides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 In re fun mix of units, the most glaring ommission is the Russians don't have their mortars. They can't use their infantry to support their armor in the doctrinal ways without them, but instead must take on ATGs with AFVs, straight ahead fashion. While they get one platoon of pioneers, that isn't many, and they don't get THs or ATRs, so their infantry AT is quite limited as well. Striping the SU-122s of their HC rounds is also debatable. Rune obviously wanted to showcase the IS-2, but the scenario as a whole plays like a demonstration that Panthers are better in CM, rather than playing as a realistic tactics match up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiavarm Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 After I was done playing, I reviewed the map and noticed alot of German units in position that were well away from the main battle. I only played the scenario once so I am just curious if these units are moving or are stationary. There was infantry in the wood to the left of the house with the small flag. They did not seem to be able to engage the Russians unless the Russian came directly through the woods. There were also infantry and a gun behind the woods in the back right corner of the map. (These map references are from the aspect of the Russian approach.) These units, unless they move, would be unable to influence the outcome of the battle. Great Scenario. It would be better against a human opponent but what is a person to do since I know the battle and that takes a lot of the mystery out of the scenario. [ January 11, 2006, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: chiavarm ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameUsedBefore Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Hey who sent me an e-mail about this scenario? I have the file ready to send back but I lost your address. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Originally posted by JasonC: In re fun mix of units, (snip) Rune obviously wanted to showcase the IS-2, but the scenario as a whole plays like a demonstration that Panthers are better in CM, rather than playing as a realistic tactics match up. I enjoy historical scenarios and realistic (if there is such a thing) tactical match-ups and OOB's that try to simulate them. But I Wargame for fun so I do not mind "what if" scenarios if they are not to far fetched. I see no reason to think that Russian infantry attacked without their organic or attached mortars on occasion. It would be easy enough to imagine several why and why not situations that would make sense of that. I can also believe no "hollow charge" rounds were available on occasion. One or two of the 122's carrying a couple of left over’s would probably make more sense but I don't think it is much of a stretch to think that they would go into battle without their full or even partial ammo load-out on occasion. I was expected to function as a soldier when I did or did not have my entire compliment of gear and/or ammo. I enjoyed the scenario a few years ago when it was released and I still enjoy it on occasion. That is why I play it. Never do I worry if the unit mix is exactly right (by who’s standards?) judged on a historical basis, I leave that to the Grogs such as you Jason . I just ride along the Wargaming highway for a bit of fun and enjoyment. Jagermister has provided that when I have played it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 The missing mortar issue is not just a realism point, it is a tactics point. Real Russian tactics used mortars to deal with enemy ATGs. Leaving the mortars out would be fine if the German defense relied entirely on tanks and infantry AT. But they get 3 ATGs. It is the asymmetry that is an issue. The Germans get their whole range of AT arms, the Russians don't get their real range of counters. It is still a good scenario, and I've explained what to exploit as the Russians, in order to win it. Their monster HE pitted against the German foot troops, is the key to winning. That is the aspect of the German defense that can be stressed to breaking. With the mortars missing, they have skulking replies of their own, in a head to head game. The ground is crinkled enough they can hide from direct fire HE in mini-reverse slope shelters. Still not easy for 'em though. German against the AI is much easier. The AI doesn't know to use its HE. It won't fire it off without spots. And its IS-2s will go head to head with the superior German cats. You have to work to win this as the Russians. As the Germans, you can just let Rune play it and still win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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