Best way to knock out this Pillbox?

[Industrializer]

In a recent PBEM my opponent had a 88mm pillbox sitting on a hilltop overlooking almost the entire map and I had some real difficulties advancing and finally knocking it out. Here is a picture of the map

In the rightmost corner were you see the smoke rising was the 88mm pillbox, this is by far the highest point on the entire map. It had good LOS to many parts of the map and the hill itself and the surrounding area had almost no cover. I've also marked another MG pillbox that was covering the wide open area infront of the 88mm pillbox and a few MG and other infantry squads were dug in at the edge of the hill aswell. So, how to knock out this pillbox to finally allow my T34/85 to advance and take care of his infantry ? His left flank was protected by a Panther and was also covered by the 88mm pillbox, trying to advance with infantry was not that successfull and stalled soon.

My available equipment: a 152mm FO but without smoke, a 82mm on map mortar with LOS on the pillbox and several smoke shells, a SU-122, 3 T34/85 (one gun damaged) and 2 M17. I had a few pioneer squads and a few rifle44 squads.

The way I finally knocked out that pillbox (at a high price) I first took out the MG pillbox (cost my my SU-122 that traveled accidently through the LOS of the Pillbox and a T34/85 that was lost due to a CMBB bug were a rotate-to order was interpreted as a fast movement order), after KO'ing the MG and pushing my infantry as far through the houses left and right of the center road as possible, I smoked the 88-pillbox and drove a M17 followed by the gun damaged T34/85 with a pioneer platoon on top and my last remaining T34/85 at high speed along the road towards his map edge. They made it (but got destroyed by the Panther later on) and the pioneer squad, even tho failing to knock out the pillbox directly, managed to set fire to the grain field and this forced the pillbox crew to abandon their bunker soon thereafter.

Well, this was a pretty costly approach, any idea how I could have knocked out that pillbox with fewer losses ?

[RSColonel_131st]

I dont think there would have been any better way to do it.

Just a good example why an 81mm OFF Map mortar with 150 shells can be a nice bonus to have, if just for the smoke.

He simple picked the perfect spot for that thing. You reacted correctly by blinding it and closing in. Not much to change, sometimes you just have to deal with rather impossiple defense setups.

[dugfromthearth]

a more historic and possibly less frustrating approach would be to buy a ton of the cheapest conscripts possible and send them forward in a wave at the pillbox.

they won't make it, but it will run out of ammunition.

then you move your tanks forward.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth:

a more historic and possibly less frustrating approach

May I ask you why you'd think your approach would be either of those? Sounds more like gamey and certainly bloody frustrating to me. On top of that, the 88mm wouldn't run out of AP ammo by shooting infantry (particularly if the opponent has given it a cover armour arc), and your conscripts would become routed just by thinking of MG-42 or mortar fire.

[dugfromthearth]

I am of the impression from my reading that the Soviets employed large armies of cossacks and others as shock armies that went ahead of the regular military forces and engaged in the toughest and bitterest fighting of the war.

The soviets were quick to expend men instead of valuable materials such as tank. Of course they burned through a lot of tanks as well.

[tar]

Realistically: Wait for nightfall. Or go around it (off-map).

In the game, it seems you did about what could be expected. Given the forces and the terrain, it was a tough choice to beat.

[JasonC]

1. Set everything up to pop when needed, taking your time about it, with nothing exposed to the 88 box yet.

2. Designate the gun damaged T-34 as your "distraction vehicle". If it dies, one of the M17s goes next. Mission - to fast move into view of the 88 and back out of LOS again, at one edge of its field of view. Over on the left would be good, e.g. out from behind a building and back behind another one. Or behind that hill on the right, using trees too to keep the LOS marginal when in view. No turns while in sight.

3. The same turn the distraction guy does a run, timed 10 seconds behind him, the SU and 2 T-34/85s shoot and scoot with target pre-designated on the pill box, plus an arc containing it and not much else. Right back into cover. You want to be facing the box exactly, no rotation time lost, one shot only, and the range should be under 500m.

4. Jack in the box until you get a firing slit penetration, or until you lose 2 distraction vehicles and 2 shooters.

5. If your shooters are caught in the open at the end of a turn with the 88 rotated the right way, smoke the box with your mortar, to free them.

6. Alternately, you can have a T-34/85 pop from right and from left on successive halves of each turn, switching off which goes first. This is riskier but can't be handled by a covered arc and correct anticipation of the "real shooters side".

You will get a firing slit pen, it is just a matter of the number of shots it takes you. The more time the 88 spends rotating, the fewer chances of lost tanks in reply.

7. Another solution is to pick a spot with LOS just in front of the box, but not to the box itself. E.g. coming around from behind a house, the LOS should "scan" across the box location. Halting just before the box is visible should give sight to the wheat 10-20m in front of the box, without the box being able to reply.

Park your SU in this location. Area fire 122mm HE into the wheat. When (or if) it burns, the box will be masked by permanent smoke. Takes longer and is uncertain - you can spend many minutes and HE without getting a fire. But no risk other than lost time and ammo.

[ November 19, 2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by JasonC:

When (or if) it burns, the box will be masked by permanent smoke.

This is poor modelling on the part of the game engine, of course. Grass fires burn out quickly. They can spread, as in the game, but they don't burn long at any one spot, and the charred place left behind doesn't smoke especially much.

Actually, the wetter it is, the more it will smoke (though the harder it is for it to catch fire)..

One programmer seems too little to handle all the details. There are so many features of these games that are treated in very hasty and cursory fashion. 163 hours a week just aren't enough, obviously.