Finns, Mannerheim, and the Continuation War

[Grisha]

Great! Thanks for the input and material, guys

[Tero]

Originally posted by Keke:

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

[Yes. That was definitely considered, not to mention that Nazi racial views didn't encompass Finns into "Nordic people" that their dogma idolized.

Now could you tell me who considered it in 1941?

IIRC racially the Finns had been classed at the time as a slavic race but had been exempted from the "lower class" status, partly as a matter of politics and because of the Winter War.

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

Generally, Finns were more into Western Alliance (Britain/France) pre- and during Winter War, but circumstances forced us to tie our fortunes with German, so to speak.

Co-operation was easy, since lot of the upper echelon officers were WW I German trained, volunteers in Imperial Prussian Jaeger Battaillon 27 that fought on East Front during WW I.

One should not forget that many Finnish officers served in the Russian Army before and during WW1, including Mannerheim who commanded the [Russian] 6th Cavalry Corps on the southern front during the late phases of the war.

Not to mention gen. Nenonen.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Grisha:

So, for purposes of wargaming it would not be unreasonable to assume limitations with the advancement of Finnish units into the Soviet Union due to reasons outside the scope of military concerns.

Not exactly IMO. In the case of Finland and her "reasons outside the scope of military concerns" vis-a-vis wargaming it is often forgotten that the political and military considerations were much more closely and much more obviously linked together that is the case with the case of the "big players". The cause and effect between the political and the military in Finland was much more intricate and subtle than it was for example in Germany. During both the peak moments and the darkest hours of the FDF it was always the politicians who had the last say in the matters pertaining strategy. And the politicians had the good sense to leave the running of the strictly military matters (tactics and doctrine) to the soldiers. The sole exception was the town of Viipuri. IIRC that was the only prestige location which Mannerheim had singled out as a "not a step back" location. And even he was sensible enough to let it drop when it was lost.

[Grisha]

During both the peak moments and the darkest hours of the FDF it was always the politicians who had the last say in the matters pertaining strategy.

Tero, this is an interesting statement. Are you saying the Finnish government had little say in the determination of the political objectives upon which Finland's military strategy was based upon? Or, that once the Finnish government determined the political objectives for their conflict with the USSR from 1941-1944, the strategic planning of Finnish military operations was out of Finnish politicians' hands?

[Sardaukar]

Originally posted by Grisha:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />During both the peak moments and the darkest hours of the FDF it was always the politicians who had the last say in the matters pertaining strategy.

Tero, this is an interesting statement. Are you saying the Finnish government had little say in the determination of the political objectives upon which Finland's military strategy was based upon? Or, that once the Finnish government determined the political objectives for their conflict with the USSR from 1941-1944, the strategic planning of Finnish military operations was out of Finnish politicians' hands? </font>

[Tero]

Originally posted by Grisha:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />During both the peak moments and the darkest hours of the FDF it was always the politicians who had the last say in the matters pertaining strategy.

Tero, this is an interesting statement. Are you saying the Finnish government had little say in the determination of the political objectives upon which Finland's military strategy was based upon? Or, that once the Finnish government determined the political objectives for their conflict with the USSR from 1941-1944, the strategic planning of Finnish military operations was out of Finnish politicians' hands? </font>