PlatCmdr Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I'm curious, given the situation where subordinate infantry squads have LOS to a target that their HQ doesn't have, will the squads be just as likely to engage this target as they would be if the HQ also had LOS to the same target? Or does this not matter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 The short answer is: it doesn't matter. Your premise was that the approaching enemy unit was already spotted. An HQ will actually spot the approaching unit better and sooner. And, he has binoculars so you are more likely to get a correct ID of the approaching unit, instead of just "infantry". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: The short answer is: it doesn't matter. Your premise was that the approaching enemy unit was already spotted. An HQ will actually spot the approaching unit better and sooner. And, he has binoculars so you are more likely to get a correct ID of the approaching unit, instead of just "infantry". Nope, that only reduces the number of relevant cases. What happens when the squad has LOS, but the HQ does not? City, woods, reverse slope... Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: The short answer is: it doesn't matter. Your premise was that the approaching enemy unit was already spotted. An HQ will actually spot the approaching unit better and sooner. And, he has binoculars so you are more likely to get a correct ID of the approaching unit, instead of just "infantry". Nope, that only reduces the number of relevant cases. What happens when the squad has LOS, but the HQ does not? City, woods, reverse slope... Gruß Joachim </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlatCmdr Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 You cleared it up for me, thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: Not sure I understand your statement/question? There have been a few good threads on "binoculars" and "spotting" if you want more info on this topic, just search these words and that should clear things up. There do exist cicrumstances when the effectiveness of binoculars is null: In dense woods, from behind hills, during night combat, ... Even dusk or dawn should decrease ability of binoculars (IIRC they reduce optics abilities) So in some cases the HQ will spot the enemy earlier - this iw where your answer may be valid (I have no evidence it is not). But in other cases, the HQ will not spot earlier - as only the squad has LOS, while LOS from HQ to enemy is blocked. So the original question is still unanswered - at least for these cases. Do squads tend to fire on targets the HQ has LOS to, or do they fire entirely on their own? Is their an instant fire plan coordinated by HQ, or are the squads after TacAI took over in the action phase? Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: Not sure I understand your statement/question? There have been a few good threads on "binoculars" and "spotting" if you want more info on this topic, just search these words and that should clear things up. There do exist cicrumstances when the effectiveness of binoculars is null: In dense woods, from behind hills, during night combat, ... Even dusk or dawn should decrease ability of binoculars (IIRC they reduce optics abilities) So in some cases the HQ will spot the enemy earlier - this iw where your answer may be valid (I have no evidence it is not). But in other cases, the HQ will not spot earlier - as only the squad has LOS, while LOS from HQ to enemy is blocked. So the original question is still unanswered - at least for these cases. Do squads tend to fire on targets the HQ has LOS to, or do they fire entirely on their own? Is their an instant fire plan coordinated by HQ, or are the squads after TacAI took over in the action phase? Gruß Joachim </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarhead: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: Not sure I understand your statement/question? There have been a few good threads on "binoculars" and "spotting" if you want more info on this topic, just search these words and that should clear things up. There do exist cicrumstances when the effectiveness of binoculars is null: In dense woods, from behind hills, during night combat, ... Even dusk or dawn should decrease ability of binoculars (IIRC they reduce optics abilities) So in some cases the HQ will spot the enemy earlier - this iw where your answer may be valid (I have no evidence it is not). But in other cases, the HQ will not spot earlier - as only the squad has LOS, while LOS from HQ to enemy is blocked. So the original question is still unanswered - at least for these cases. Do squads tend to fire on targets the HQ has LOS to, or do they fire entirely on their own? Is their an instant fire plan coordinated by HQ, or are the squads after TacAI took over in the action phase? Gruß Joachim </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlatCmdr Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Let me say that by my earlier posting of my having my question answered, your advice was helpful Walpurgis in that I was protecting my HQ behind the lines of its subordinates, and therefore, not taking advantage of its optical superiority. So, in that, your advice has definitely been helpful, thank you. I assumed by your statement, "the short answer is, it doesn't matter" summed up for me that my concern over the need for the HQ to have LOS to a target unimportant for its subordinate squads to engage those targets as long as the sqauds alone can see it. If your short answer specifically addressed that question, then fine, it's been answered. However, just to clarify for both myself and Scarhead--as the "short answer" didn't provide any detail--do the HQ and its subordinates work independent of one another when it comes to targeting? For example, if the HQ was behind a rise, yet still in command of its subordinates--who have contact of a approaching target within firing range--will they then take the initiative to fire at that target even if their HQ cannot see it to direct them, or is this not neccessary and they can and will fire at that target independent of their HQ having LOS to it? [ May 07, 2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: PlattCmdr ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 The short answer is... Yes. Units can fire even if the HQ is running for the hills. Think about it, if somebody was assaulting you would you wait for your HQ to tell you to fire? You can increase the chances by giving your units covered arcs. They will be even more likely, although not guaranteed, to fire at anything that moves within that arc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlatCmdr Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by Elmo: The short answer is... Yes. Units can fire even if the HQ is running for the hills. Think about it, if somebody was assaulting you would you wait for your HQ to tell you to fire?Logically, yes, this of course makes sense in real life...and as much as this game does an incredible job of simulating most real-life situations, it is afterall, just a game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by PlattCmdr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmo: The short answer is... Yes. Units can fire even if the HQ is running for the hills. Think about it, if somebody was assaulting you would you wait for your HQ to tell you to fire?Logically, yes, this of course makes sense in real life...and as much as this game does an incredible job of simulating most real-life situations, it is afterall, just a game. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: Elmo has it: Yes Scarhead: -Crack or Green troops spot all the same. Doesn't matter one bit. Except perhaps, that green units will be pinned more quickly and pinned units do not spot as well. grumble... not happy with that. Crack troops should know much better if there are guards coming or not, or if it is a T34 or just a BT. OTOH I can now send the greenest squad of the plt as point - usually sent better squads hoping they would find the enemy better. But if it is the HQ that does the spotting anyway... -a) "Would a squad target something different if the HQ had LOS to all of its potential targets?" no. That is, not unless the HQ can see a target that the squad doesn't, thus a "borg" spotting, and the squad chooses to fire on it. 'nuff said on borg spotting on this board. "Is a squad more likely to target something in LOS of the HQ than if the HQ had no LOS to any of its potential targets?" no. The only preferential treatment is that the tac AI tends to target approaching HQs before its subordinate squads . . . if it has LOS to both. This is why it is often better to let your squads choose their targets on their own . . .they are smarter than you think. From my personal experience, I tend to think that the tacAI overrules its own targets, but is pretty sticky to your target orders. Thus especially MGs usually get their target orders cancelled before each turn. -"The latter parts of the statement we don't have to agree, as it does not matter for the question." It is not a matter of agreement. There is the way it is, and there is the way it isn't. What I have said is the way it is. grumble... not happy with that. Somewhere else I read on the offense you have to wait 2-3 turns for Binos to have full effect scanning the horizon- that seems much more likely compared to RL. Reducing any optics effect under less than optimal conditions added to wishlist. -"Does the HQ (during the turn or for the AI as player) create a fireplan or does the TacAI only look at one unit (squad, team, ...) at a time." It looks only at one unit. grumble... yes, expected something like that. I hoped to hear something else... -"The question here is then: Does a plt of tanks have a coordinated fire plan and thus perform better than the same amount of individual tanks on the same positions (let's assume perfect tank country with HQ in perfect overwatch)" They will only perform better as platoons if your tank HQ has a morale bonus and is in command range of subordinate tanks, otherwise no. I guess "perform better" is then just the decreased command delay while in range (plus the morale). grumble.... Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by PlattCmdr: It's just a game, but my Yes answer was to your game related question. I used a RL example to support the answer. A game related example would be that your units can fire on approaching targets regardless of what their HQ is doing, even if the HQ is already eliminated. [ May 08, 2003, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Elmo ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.