Kevin Kinscherf Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Tis the season. I had not seen this yet. Here is the link for those who dont have it either. http://www.geocities.com/armysappersforward/kursk.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaTyR Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Great URL and worthy of a BUMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Hmm, not only is it hosted by geocities, it also quotes Guy Sajer.... "The sudden, extremely heavy counter preparation was quite effective -- especially psychologically. Guy Sajer, a member of Grossdeutschland Division, gave a graphic description of the terror produced by seemingly endless explosions, even to those in comparatively safe shelters." ...treat with caution... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Hmm, not only is it hosted by geocities, it also quotes Guy Sajer.... "The sudden, extremely heavy counter preparation was quite effective -- especially psychologically. Guy Sajer, a member of Grossdeutschland Division, gave a graphic description of the terror produced by seemingly endless explosions, even to those in comparatively safe shelters." ...treat with caution... If Guy Sajer was here (And real and not 80 years old) he would kick your ass, you party pooper! Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseJedi Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I've just bought his book and now Dorosh is saying its a load of poop. Damn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by ScouseJedi: I've just bought his book and now Dorosh is saying its a load of poop. Damn Real or not, get ready to want to throw the book against the wall, track down Mr. Sajer, and force feed that dense Frenchman an economy size order of Freedom fries. "Duhhhhhhh, sure we slaughtered the sons and fathers of the Russian people, destoryed their homes, stole their belongings, and declared them sub-human to boot. Yet I can't understand why they were angry with us." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kinscherf Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 After looking at the report more closely this morning a couple of things strike me. It was written recently in 2000 by the U.S. Army Communications-Electronics Command,Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate. a) Why did they need to write such a report? Amazing ... my wife works at the U.S. Army Communications-Electronics Command at Fort Monmouth NJ! c) I am looking to see how the authors backed into such a nice job. It looks like a general battle history with a focus on mines. Sort of like a term paper we would do in college. Looks like the key section is G. THE SOVIET DEFENSE SYSTEM AND MINEFIELDS. Much of this detail I think is found Glantz's studies. I will try to find out why the report was written through my wife. I completely missed the connection yesterday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by ScouseJedi: I've just bought his book and now Dorosh is saying its a load of poop. Damn No, I wouldn't be prepared to call it that myself, but be aware that the book is criticized in some quarters, lauded in others. See my GD site for a detailed set of commentaries on the book - and judge for yourself. http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/sajer.htm In this particular instance, I think any historian looking to use it as a reference is asking for trouble - not just due to the controversy, but even just for the colloquial style of writing. If this treatise was done from secondary sources like Sajer or the GD histories only, then Kevin's description of it as a "term paper" is apt. That doesn't make it any less interesting or factual, but the uber-historian will still of necessity treat it differently. If the original Soviet and German archives were referenced, it would put it in a different league. [ July 06, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 After reading the articles mentioned, and not having read the book itself, if the case rests only upon the author making mistakes in dates, unit names and locations, then the case is itself flawed for that reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Sirocco: After reading the articles mentioned, if the case rests only upon the author making mistakes in dates, unit names and locations You may want to reread the articles, especially the first one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco: After reading the articles mentioned, if the case rests only upon the author making mistakes in dates, unit names and locations You may want to reread the articles, especially the first one. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Just a quick note on the question as to why this may have been written by this particular office. One of the ways to get a step up on the competition for promotion in the Army is to be published. Since officers aren't restricted to things in their own field they tend to write about whatever interests them. I have seen articles on supply management and how to set up an NBC room written by Infantry officers. These articles often don't come under the same scrutiny that real historical writing would and so can be a little dicey as far as being true source material. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kinscherf Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 That maybe true, but this article looks more professional to me that an "under the rug" addition to a resume. Perhaps it may have been in preparation for years. But the bibliography is complete and current. Fort Belvoir is close enough to Washington for the authors to research at the Library of Congress. I still dont get it. The authors are civilian employees writing on Kursk in the year 2000! If this is a way to get ahead - I want that job. Taxpayers pay for this? - Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Everyone needs to be sure to go the main menu of the page hosting that article. Make sure to turn your speakers up before you go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kinscherf Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 Really funny ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Bumpity bump. Very good site, interesting articles - particularly about Hobart. Fancying being Montgomery's brother-in-law! Worth exploring - but don't rush from the main index and keep the speakers on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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