The undetectable ATR. How to beat'em?

[edgars]

I recently played an operation which involved light german armor (armored cars and haftracks) moving in difficult terrain against a force which posessed multiple anti-tank rifles.

Those proved to be a real pain in the .... as i lost many of halfies and all armored cars. The biggest problem with ATRs are, that they're practically indetectable at even half-decent range.

My test scenario showed, that actively firing ATR (regular PTRD in woods, no foxhole) is hard to spot by an elite sharpshooter, even when range is about 100m (at this range, in some cases ATR was spotted, in some – not, there were no obvious explanations, why). At 200m there's only sound contact even after firing for multiple turns.

What i'm looking is other people's tactics with or against ATRs. I can provide some observations of my own.

First, it SEEMED that bunching up multiple sharpshooters in more or less same space, improved spotting chances.

Also, one tactic (somewhat gamey) i found usable against AI, was "sitting duck". I drove one - cheapest - vehicle out in the open, the area i knew was covered with ATR fire but at a considerable distance (400-500m). Two ATRs (sound contacts) started firing. At this time my other vehicles were rushing from cover to cover, advancing closer to enemy positions. Since ATRs were locked on to the poor "sitting duck", the other vehicles crossed the open with no casualties.

The key thing here, i guess, is that due to death clock and relative un-lethality of one single ATR round, they kept plinking at the vehicle for considerably long time, giving other vehicles a chance to reach cover.

[JasonC]

The primary counter to ATRs is a true tank, with 30mm or better armor even on the sides. That is enough protection that they need both close range and flank shots to have a chance of doing anything. Ranges so close allow them to be spotted. And needing flank shots means you get right among them before they can even do that. If you have infantry along as well, you clean out many of them by running over them before they fire. The others, you at least spot as soon as they shoot.

ATRs are effective against light armor, only, precisely for the reasons you saw. They can't be spotted at medium ranges. If they can kill at those ranges, therefore, they are quite effective. Which happens if and only if the attacking armor is light, vehicle category or thin SP gun varieties rather than true tanks.

What do you do if you only have such armor and the enemy has ATRs? You must lead with infantry, trailing the light armor a considerable distance. Only expose a given light vehicle to a given enemy location when your infantry is directly opposite that location, or actually in the process of leapfrogging into it. Use "keyholing" for this, from long ranges.

Never position light armor right out in the open against an intact enemy defense. Light armor always needs cover - houses or woods on a flank, limiting LOS to a small portion of the defense. Ideally, to "one, count 'em one" enemy unit. You only fire at one at a time, so you only need to see one at a time.

30mm front armored cars are significantly better than halftracks against ATRs. But you cannot afford to advance them recklessly, either. Use the combination of ranges of 350-500m, and showing only the front aspect by "keyholing", to protect such armored cars while still getting LOS to defenders. They can fire back at the ATRs using such tactics. But the normal way of killing an ATR once discovered is by ordinary infantry fire from 100m or so.

Trying to "swamp" ATRs by presenting multiple targets at once does not work. Their rate of fire and ammo loads are too high, and they are too cheap and numerous. Even if they concentrate on one vehicle due to limited behind armor effect and the death clock, you can't afford to lose a vehicle every minute or two to every ATR or two.

True tanks (30mm sides, 50mm fronts) can overwatch one another effectively against ATRs, because they turn to face threats and are invunerable beyond spotting range. So they can benefit from moving together in platoons. But not the light armor - it is just too fragile.

[Gaylord Focker]

You defeat them with MOlten TnT!!!!

Then you go, GrRRRAAAARRRR! :mad:

[coe]

the problem is, it is easier to spot sharpshooters than ATRs (in my opinion )

[Frunze]

Ideally, you have infantry well out in front of your armor. They'll get close enough to spot ATRs, or even run right over 'em, before the ATRs are close enough to be totally deadly to your armor.

I'm playing a game right now where I've got nothing but light armor, and I'm getting nothing but sound contacts on the ATRs. So I'm using lots of area fire from some of my ACs and fast-moving others past 'em. It semi-works, and this is against a human opponent.

[xerxes]

Since ATRs are at the edge of their penetration envelope against light armor there are a number of techniques that help.

1. Maintain off-angle facing. 90 degree shots penetrate better.

2. Even a slight increase in armor or slope helps. Make sure your best armor protection is facing the ATRs.

3. Move fast to minimize exposure to ATR fire.

4. Since ATRs take multiple hits to kill, massing your afvs helps. Spreading them out just insures all the enemy ATRs get potshots in.

[Aco4bn187inf]

A Deadly Affair is a good scenario in CMBB to test the ideas in this discussion. I played as the Germans and lost many vehicles trying to locate the ATRs- I basically had to flee toward the exit zone. If you are playing against a human player, beware of ambushes if you become totally oriented toward hunting ATRs.

[David Chapuis]

--- :eek: Warning: Stupid Newbie Questions Ahead :eek: ---

Are there ATR's in CMBO? And what are AFVS?

[Zebulon Pleasure Beast]

Originally posted by Cpl Dodge:

--- :eek: Warning: Stupid Newbie Questions Ahead :eek: ---

Are there ATR's in CMBO? And what are AFVS?

No ATR's in CMBO.

AFV stands for Armoured Fighting Vehicle (Armored if you're one of them yanks), which is just what it sounds like.