PZ4 F2 and early G

[nevjr]

they are (in game, aside from skin) and were the same tank, it was refered to as the F2 in early manuals before it was officially named, why is it modeled as 2 vehicles?

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Didn't the G have side skirts which gave some additional protenction from either shaped charges or ATR's?

Regards

Jim R.

[Mace]

The F2 was almost identical to the F1 but featured a longer 75mm (L43 c/w L24) and minor changes to ammunition storage.

However, some of the vision ports from the turret sides and the vision port on the loader's side of the turret front were dropped in the G version.

So the differences between the F2 and G are noticeable.

[ September 12, 2005, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: Mace ]

[DEY]

Below is from http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz3.htm

From April of 1941 to March of 1942, 487 of another variant Ausf F1(F) were producedby Krupp-Gruson along with Vomag and Nibelungenwerke. Ausf F1 was the last of Panzerkampfwagen IVs based on the short version chassis and armed with 75mm L/24 gun. In March of 1942, 25 of Ausf F1s were later converted to Ausf F2s. Ausf F also featured new turret design, drive sprocket and idler. Ausf F was also fitted with 400mm wide tracks instead of old 360mm wide one. Overall, Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausf A to F1 were designated Sd.Kfz.161 and were all armed with short 75mm KwK 37 L/24 gun.

In March of 1942, next variant Ausf F2 was produced, followed by Ausf G in May. Current research shows that in reality designation Ausf F2 was not used when describing Ausf F armed with 75mm L/43 gun and instead tanks known as Ausf F2 were in fact early Ausf G tanks. Ausf F2 and Ausf G variants were based on the long version PzKpfw IV chassis and were armed with newer 75mm KwK 40 L/43 gun (that was able to compete with Soviet T-34s armed with 76.2mm gun). When encountered in North Africa, British nicknamed Ausf F2 (early Ausf G) - "Mark IV Special", since it was superior to any American or British tank at the time. The installation of the new gun increased the overall weight of the tank and reduced its speed. Both Ausf F(F1) and Ausf F2 were identical except for their armament. Ausf F2's new 75mm L/43 gun was mounted with single baffle muzzle brake

Below this is from a rather lackluster armor book I have "The Worlds Greatest Tanks".

The first PzKpfw IV to recieve the new gun was to have been the Ausf F, but by the time the new model was ready to go into production, the gun still was not available, and the old L/24 weapon was used instead. Whwn the L/43 version became available in February 1942, after 460 of the 650 Ausf F's originally ordered had been completed, the tanks that received it became know as the Ausf F2, and the originals were redesignated as Ausf F1's. The new gun was somewhat heavier than the L/24, and it's extra length made the tank a lttle nose heavy. This problem was exacerbated when the L/48 cannon, with it's 375mm (14.8in) of extra barrel length replaced the the L/43 in the Ausf H. At that point, modifiactions where made to the front suspension, supplementary coil springs being fitted.

The Ausf G replaced the Ausf F2 in May 1943. There was really only very minor differences between the two. Over the course of the next 10 months a total of almost 1700 Ausf G's were built, before this model was superseded by the Ausf H in March 1943.

It would seem there is some slight mistakes from both these sources, though I could be wrong.

It seems to me that the Ausf F was indeed built on the longer chassis, and was meant to be equipped with the L/43 gun, right from get go but the longer barreled gun wasn't ready so they had to use the short gun L/24 until the other was set to go.

There is a lot of speculation about the F1-F2 thing, some say because the longer gun wasn't ready, played a big part in this type of model naming, because all the F models ordered was supposed to been equipped with the L/43 gun.

Even more speculation with the F2-G models, from what I read the G- model is anything from a slight manufacture line progession to some major differences from the F-model.

For one thing I've read comments that this model at some point and time was uparmored to 60mm front armor which doesn't seem to happen with any of the models in the game.

The big thing is that the way things turned out in the game from Battlefront is that we can have a different look for the two tank models so thats a good thing right.

[nevjr]

Originally posted by Mace:

The F2 was almost identical to the F1 but featured a longer 75mm (L43 c/w L24) and minor changes to ammunition storage.

However, some of the vision ports from the turret sides and the vision port on the loader's side of the turret front were dropped in the G version.

So the differences between the F2 and G are noticeable.

the tiger had different road wheels, added a loaders periscope, changed gunsights, mantlets, muzzel brakes etc, and didnt change designations, the name change for the panzer 4 had nothing to do with production chaanges, they are the same tank

[DEY]

It would appear that this point of view is not unique to just here.

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4620&view=next&sid=57869f069e139c0bc56cf8b12e10506f

It seems that the F was an interim model that had so many ordered, then when that order was completed the G disignation came into play.

BFC could've just given the early G-model a name disignation like F2/G

But like I said having two different tanks lets the modders have two different looks for those AFV's.

Though if BFC hadn't included a separate hardcoded F2, they could've then been able to code, say a real BT42 for the Finn's or given a captured Russian tank to the Italians, such as a T34 which would have made the game play with them a little more fun.

But thats the way it is.

[Mace]

Originally posted by nevjr:

the tiger had different road wheels, added a loaders periscope, changed gunsights, mantlets, muzzel brakes etc, and didnt change designations, the name change for the panzer 4 had nothing to do with production chaanges, they are the same tank

It's an issue about how a beauracracy works.

Someone in the German tank procurement arm made the decision that a new version (Ausf) for the Panzer IV would be registered and a production order issued, even if the specifications between the new version and older differed only slightly.

Of course the Ausf G had changes made during it's life time (I only gave the initial changes between the F2 and the G)

The full changes during the lifetime of the Ausf G included:

i) Vision ports deleted

ii) Different muzzle break (1942)

iii) repositioning of smoke dischargers (1942)

iv) Schurzen (1943)

v) new format, drive and rear sprocket (mid 1943)

vi) relocation of radio antenna

In addition, as mentioned above some G's had bolted armour applied to the hull front.

Obviously, Battlefront thought that enough difference existed between the two versions to justify both their inclusions in the game.

[Bogdan]

Originally posted by Mace:

The F2 was almost identical to the F1 but featured a longer 75mm (L43 c/w L24) and minor changes to ammunition storage.

However, some of the vision ports from the turret sides and the vision port on the loader's side of the turret front were dropped in the G version.

So the differences between the F2 and G are noticeable.

Mmmh... ...'got a different version here :

Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.F2 and Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.G

The Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.F2 and Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.G were not seperate vehicles, but merely different designations for the same vehicle. The Ausf.F2 designation appeared in two manuals before the designation was changed to Ausf.G, and thus the designation made it into post-war litterature as being a seperate vehicle.

From Panzerworld.net