Flenser Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Yeah, I know this subject has been beaten to death. Speaking of beaten to death.... I just got wailed on by 2 KVs in a 1000 QB Aug, '41 (Axis attack). I brought 8 PzIIIHs and a couple of IICs and some infantry. It all lasted about 10 rounds. I certainly did some stupid things, like having my mortar FO shoot HE instead of smoke during a crucial round... but still. It seems to me, that in this time period (41 and some of 42), the best hope for the Germans is to close and flank. All well and good in theory, except even a semi competent ruskie is gonna buy a few AT guns and it really doesn't take much kill the early panzers. So, fine, you send the infantry out first to find the AT guns... but what is that, way in the distance... a KV! Troops get pinned/rout. Panzers have to close to do anything to a KV, so the infantry has to advance to find the AT guns so the can flank, ad nauseum, ad infinetum. In Real Life the Germans called in bunch of Stukas and towed in a bunch of 88s... but of course you don't have that option in a QB. 1 KV I can deal with. 2+ is damn near impossible from what I've seen. Anyway... I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Any bright ideas out there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KursruK Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Originally posted by Flenser: In Real Life the Germans called in bunch of Stukas and towed in a bunch of 88s... but of course you don't have that option in a QB. Why don't you have that option? buy Stukas and 88s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Heh. Well. The 88. Its immobile. IF the map is hilly, it might work. If it isn't... maybe you can lure your opponent towards it. Probably not. Stukas. WHEN they show up they MIGHT be able knock one out. The 88 and stuka cost about 200 and 180 repectively (this is a 1000 point QB mind you). Thats a lot of points to spend on some "ifs" "mights" and "whens" I'm looking for something a little more conventional. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Lots of infantry. Lots of those 1918 field guns (they're cheap) Send the first wave of infantry (1/2 squads spread out). Bring the KVs out, they won't be able to resist. Now, you should have a LOT of 1918 75mm guns. When the KVs park to take out your infantry, use the 75mm guns to smoke all but one of the KVs, unload EVERYTHING else on the remaining KV. You will most likely gun damage or immobilize the lone KV. After you take out one KV, just focus on the next making sure to smoke any extra KVs. That way you only deal with one at a time. He'll get some of your guns, but of course while this is going on your infantry won't have to worry about the KVs at all. Of course a smart player will keyhole the KVs, but then they aren't dominating the entire field. [ March 06, 2003, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: xerxes ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Ahh. Here we go. Thats an interesting idea. I've been trying to fight fire with fire... maybe water works better. Still sorta terrain dependent, but at least the 75s can move. It also requires that the KV comes out to play, but thats a bonus. A keyholed KV can only effect a relatively small part of the map. I might give that one a go next time. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Xerxes: Just tried out your idea on a little test map. Very encouraging results with the 75s. Under ideal conditions it takes about 4 75s to knock out the KV (at around 500-700m) Only 1 gun is usually lost. Tried the same tactic with other guns... the 37 AT doesn't work at all. The 50 AT can... if enough of the guns firing have T rounds (and if they're not lousy shots). The 150s can too (was real fun to watch that one) though it takes longer. The 75 is definitely the gun of choice for this endeavour. Thanks for the tip. Anyone else got one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 what about 20mm aa?... i know it has no chance on paper but if you have enough of them they could get a gun hit... i'm just trying to think of the cheapest weapon where if you bought enough of them you could get a gun hit... apparently 75mm ig works... maybe 20mm aa too... if you get a gun hit, then continue to fire on it... the kv will be abandoned...'knockout'... another reason for 20mm aa would be that it probably gets its first hit more quickly than the 75mm short... has anyone tried massed amounts of 7.9mm atr? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 I did the same test with a bunch (5 or so... dont remember) of PzIICs... Failed to impress the KV. Though they were firing AP rounds.... In fact, the AP/AT stuff seems to fair worse overall. The 75 IGs tend to cause more track/gun hits, breaking the crew, never actually penetrating the tank. For the time frame, you can't beat the 75 on price (22 pts in Aug 41, 30ish later). I can't believe this acutally works. But I'll take it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Hehe. And the good thing is if your opponent doesn't bring KVs the 75mm 1918 gun is a first rate support weapon at long range against enemy infantry. Pretty soon, you'll hear the "you gamey bastid buying a s**tload of 1918 guns - you cheats!!!!!" The smaller caliber should be able to get "gun damage". You just need a LOT of shots to immobilize or gun damage. The more the better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 You can hitch an 88 to a gun tractor, trundle up to a good position under smoke and then unleash a world of hurt. Trouble is, it has to be in scattered trees of rocky terrain because you can't maneuver a tractor into better cover (unless you can find a handy crater/abandoned trench). Stukas are fun (when they work) they should at least hurt a KV and spend half the rest of the game messing up his infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hmph. Didn't realize you could hitch an 88 up.... just has to start the game hitched. Interesting. Still a pretty risky proposition, compared to bringing a bunch of IGs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Since you can't push an 88 (in CMBB at least, in reality they did, just slowly), you can't safely deploy it. I think the setup time is something like 8 minutes. A towed 88 just isn't practical. Too bad they can't fire while limbered. That was a neat trick in North Africa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by Flenser: I did the same test with a bunch (5 or so... dont remember) of PzIICs... Failed to impress the KV. Though they were firing AP rounds.... In fact, the AP/AT stuff seems to fair worse overall. The 75 IGs tend to cause more track/gun hits, breaking the crew, never actually penetrating the tank. For the time frame, you can't beat the 75 on price (22 pts in Aug 41, 30ish later). I can't believe this acutally works. But I'll take it. ok... try just getting the 20mm aa piece... instead of pz iis or armored cars ... it should be cheaper... i'm talking 20 or 30 20mm aa guns... not 5 pz iic... anyway it sounds like the 75mm ig is the best thing for this... 1941 ladder play will probably evolve into masses of german 75mm igs against masses of soviet 76.2mm shorts... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flenser Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Sweet jeebus. 20-30 20mm AA pieces all firing in during the same round. I think you would have to turn the sound off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 has anyone tried massed amounts of 7.9mm atr? Haven't tried that, but a single lucky Solothurn (20 mm) ATR has worked for me. Once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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