Ammo type selection and time pauses?

[BadgerDog]

In the Sherman (M4A2E8), the loader-op would sit side-ways facing the left side of the 76mm master weapon. He would load from his "ready bin" (in the turret floor) the ammunition type as called for by the Crew Commander during the fire orders sequence. For example, the CC would holler "shell action... traverse right.... 800 yards.... soft skin vehicle at edge of tree line". The gunner repeats this and begins to traverse the turret while the loader-up selects an HE round (shell action) and drives it up the breach with fist closed, hollering "loaded!", once he was clear of the back of the breach. (a wise idea).

Now's here's the catch. Often the CC would spot a more serious threat during the engagement before the round in the breach was fired. He would holler "STOP! ... shot action... traverse left ... 1,600 yards ... tank" and the gunner would commence engaging the new "hard target" with AP (shot action), but the loader-op still had HE in the breach, he would have to grab the breach block extraction handle and manually open the breach, remove the HE round, place it back into the ready bin or chuck it our an open "pistol port" to save time, then select and reload an AP round called for by the CC. This can be a 30 second process even for a big strong loader-op. Note .... if the threat was imminent, the command "Fire Unload" would be yelled by the CC in order to clear the HE from the breach by firing it blindly instead of wasting time going through the round extraction process, but this only happened occasionally.

My question is.... does this software engine account for ammo type change over when the AI is faced with a situation of having to select different target types? Also, what is the default ammo type that is loaded when waiting for a target fire order (ours was AP) based upon the "greatest threat" assumption. Does the game engine base what's sitting loaded as being the result of the type of fire arc the player chooses? i.e.: blue would mean AP and orange would mean HE?

I ask because I haven't quite figured out how the AI handles this ammo selection process on my behalf and I wanted to make sure I was minimizing my "time to target" so I had the best chance of getting my shot off before my opponent.

Any feedback and tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

Regards,

Badger

[Panzer76]

No, in CM it is automatically assumed that the AFV at all times have the correct ammo loaded. There is no penalty involved when changing targets without having fired the shot. Maybe we will see this modeled in CM3.

[Ace Pilot]

I'm no expert on the game engine, but I thought I recall seeing a thread that said (implied?) that ammo selection was made at the time the shot took place, i.e., there is no modeling of specific ammo loading, just generic loading.

I do find it curious that the commands you used to load ("shell/shot action") are so similar. I would think during the din of battle that it would be too easy for the loader to confuse the words "shot" and "shell". I say this because on subs, the proper command for the operation of a valve was "shut", not "close", because it was too easy to confuse "close" with "blow" (as in "emergency blow" for rapid surfacing).

By the way, I've really appreciated all the great info you've posted on the Sherman. Thanks.

Ace

[BadgerDog]

Originally posted by Ace Pilot:

I do find it curious that the commands you used to load ("shell/shot action") are so similar. I would think during the din of battle that it would be too easy for the loader to confuse the words "shot" and "shell". I say this because on subs, the proper command for the operation of a valve was "shut", not "close", because it was too easy to confuse "close" with "blow" (as in "emergency blow" for rapid surfacing).

A good point.... The commands were a legacy of WWII (perhaps earlier) in the RCAC. They were heard through intercom mode of the "N19" radio set. They could be fuzzy sometimes and I know that I miss-loaded ammo at times. The loader-op was a busy crew station in the Sherman because he had to take care of maintaining ammo box loading of the 30 caliber coaxial mounted MG, operate and tune the N19 radio set, operate the auxiliary generator, replenish 76mm ammo from secondary storage to ready bin storage, hand eject expended 76mm brass ammo casings out of the "pistol port", plus provide all of the primary loading needs of the 76mm master weapon.

One of the biggest loading errors I remember myself making was an incident where I shoved WP (white phosphorus) up the spout after having been order to load HE for engaging infantry in a wooded area. Pretty dumb mistake considering the WP rounds have a flat end (no pointed tip) like HE and AP, plus using WP as an anti-personnel weapon was against the GC. It's easy to get confused at that station due to the blow back effects of the master weapon when it fired. As the breach auto opened to eject the 76mm brass casing, a sheet of flame would shoot out the back of the breach, hit the back of the turret and wrap the flames both ways around the inside of the turret. That would sometimes set loose oily rags on fire inside the turret, or cause any loose paper to start smoldering. At the same time the cordite and smoke expelled would cause the loader-op's vision to be obscured and you could sometimes pick an incorrect round from the ready bin.

The worst event for the crew was if the loader-op broke one of our bottles of wine that we used to keep wrapped in cloth and stored in the ready bin because the empty tubes were just the right size.

Originally posted by Ace Pilot:By the way, I've really appreciated all the great info you've posted on the Sherman. Thanks.[/QB]

You're welcome.... I knew all of that 35 year old knowledge and training would come in hand someday....

Thanks for the feedback on the ammo time loading.

Regards,

Badger

[White Phosphorus]

Originally posted by Panzer76:

No, in CM it is automatically assumed that the AFV at all times have the correct ammo loaded. There is no penalty involved when changing targets without having fired the shot. Maybe we will see this modeled in CM3.

In 1.01 I have seen tanks unload He at hard targets as a first shot. Then unload AP on the same exact target. For consecutive shots.