Typical make up of aRecon platoon 41-43?

[Apache]

I am trying to work out the number and type of vehicles that make up a recon platoon that would perhaps be assigned for a Bn to use (occasionally), mainly for SS Pz Gr (Armoured). Also, how would the Heer handle this task and would their vehicles vary?

At moment I use and ad-hoc mix of 2 x 221s; 1 x 222s; 1 231/8 (Rad) and 2-4 251/10s, occasionally a 251/2 in place of a 251/10. I also asign just 1 Recon Platoon to work with them, sometimes Armoured, sometimes in trucks. Realistic?

Any help appreciated.

[manchildstein (ii)]

in 1941 at least i think that the recon infantry was on motorcycles. the 37mm hafltracks were found more as the platoon leader vehicles in the armored infantry companies of the panzergrenadier battalions... i'm not sure if the 37mm halftracks were found in recon battalions.

that's another thing... you might want to consider 'recon battalions as part of regiments or divisions' instead of 'recon platoons as part of battalions'... in other words an infantry or panzergrenadier regiment would have a recon battalion, but an infantry or panzergrenadier battalion would not have a 'recon platoon' per se...

you're on the right track though... the idea of 'ad hoc' elements of a divisional or regimental recon battalion attached to a single infantry or panzergrenadier battalion is not really 'off base' as far as i know... also, your proportions of psw222,221, and 8-rad seem about right...

if memory serves the 'average' 'recon' battalion had 8 20mm and 16-25 MG armored cars... at least in 1941...

now getting into 1942 and 1943, the recon squads probably were truck or armored halftrack - instead of motorcycle - 'bound'

keep in mind too that a recon battalion could have also had some towed guns in support - as part of its heavy company...

perhaps someone else can give you more detail...

[Aaron]

Shouldn't recon troops stick with the 250 series of HTs instead of the 251s? At least that's my understanding.

Aaron

[Andreas]

German armoured division and infantry division recce had armoured cars in 1941 and 1942. The Kradschuetzenbatallion and the Aufklaerungsabteilung were two different units on paper, but were often merged (in the case of 12.PD in August 1941) because of losses.

The below info is based on the TO&E of 13.PD:

The Kradschuetzen BN was basically a rifle BN on motorcycles with an added heavy company, giving it some punch and (sort of) AT capability (3 PAK35(mot), 2 IG18(mot) and one pioneer platoon).

The Panzer-Aufklaerungs-Abteilung had 10 PSW (2cm KWK), one motorcycle rifle Coy and one heavy Coy (both as in Kradschuetzen BN). The light Recce Column may have had MG equipped PSWs.

I think that especially in 1941 HTs maybe a bit of a rare commodity with these two battalions, there were not enough to go round in the Schuetzenregimenter at this stage.

In late 1942, the merger of the two units into a single recce detachment was formalised in the Panzertruppen.

Infantry divisions were supposed to have armoured cars, but often did not, or those were e.g. French PSW178(f) Panhard or some other captured stuff.

[manchildstein (ii)]

is there any chance of getting the panhard 178 in the 1.02 patch?

i found this on ezboard:

The Panzerspahwagen Panhard 178-P204(f), referred to as the P-178, had the following specifications:

Crew: 4

Weight: 8.5 tons

Length: 4.79 meters

Width: 2.01 meters

Height: 2.31 meters

Engine: Panhard SK 4 cylinder, 6.33 liter producing 105PS @ 2000 rpm

Gearbox: 4 forward and 4 reverse

Speed: 72 kph

Range: 300 km

Radio: FuG Spr Ger 'a'

Armament: 1 x 2.5cm KwK(f) L/73

Traverse: 360 degrees by hand

Elevation: -12 to +14 degrees

Ammunition: 150 rounds

Machinegun: 7.5mm MG31(f)

Traverse: 10 degrees left

Elevation: -12 to +15 degrees

Ammunition: 3,750 rounds

History: The Panhard P-178 was the most advanced medium armored car in the French Army when the Germans invaded France. In 1940, 360 units were already in service and a large number of these were captured by the Wehrmacht in serviceable condition. Before Operation Barbarossa 190 P-178s were issued, un-modified, to German units. In addition to the standard model there were a small number of radio vehicles which served as Pz Sp Wg (Fu). Forty-three cars were converted to railway protection vehicles by fitting them with rail wheels and additional radio equipment that required a frame antenna. The final development was the conversion, in 1943, of some cars to a self-propelled gun by removing the turret and replacing it with an armored superstructure mounting the German 5cm KwK L/42, which became available after the up-gunning of the Pz KpfW III.

Specific features: Four wheel drive chassis specifically designed for use as an armored car. The large wheels gave good off-road performance.

Combat service: Issued to reconnaissance companies from 1941, 107 lost in action during 1941

[Apache]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I accept that recon oufits were separate and not part of a battalion, what I am looking to do is work out with a fair degree of accuracy the type of mix that would have been deployed for a recon op, when such an op is assisting a Bn.

Clearly I have to work with units CMBB allows and therefore motorcycles etc. are out. Probably more realistic to drop the 251/10s then and go for a reasonable sized recon force as being: 2-3 x 221s; 1-2 x 222s; 1 x 231/8(Rad) and maybe either 1-2 251/2s or 1-2 towed 75 and perhaps 1-2 towed 37mm PAK. I hadn't planned using HTs (and the gun armed versions) as the main recon 'transport' until late 42 on when (AFAIK) the HTs started to predominate.

[Echo]

Look here. Great stuff.

http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891/Tactics/Panzertaktik.htm

[Apache]

Thanks Echo, nice site.