J Wagner Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 With FOW on, Surprise Enemy Contact can occur, but I wonder if it is implemented correctly? If you move a unit and an enemy unit appears next to it, surprise enemy contact occurs and the battle is then resolved. Shouldn't SEC only occur if you attempted to move a unit INTO an enemies hex? At 60 miles per hex, I don't think SEC should happen if you only move next to a unit. In the French Campaign with FOW on, SEC occurs when a German unit advances to the border hex located to the North West of the Ardennes. The French 1st, 9th and BEF are shown and then SEC combat is resolved. I don't think the German unit should suffer SEC, for stopping on the border, it should only have happened if I tried to advance into one of those hidden units hexes. Part of me thinks it's good, because it may increase the challenge, but it simply doesn't feel right to me....any thoughts? [ July 30, 2002, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: J Wagner ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 One way to look at this is that a unit's influence extends beyond the hex. There are recon elements out and other abstractions in play that permit contact and combat between two units beyond an artificial hex boundary. So surprise contact is an acceptable game feature that forces you to consider recon tactics. Now why the German AI always wants to charge the French line without recon amazes me, but never interrupt an opponent while he/it is making a mistake. A lot of my comments come back to the "abstraction" word. You've got corps units of 2-5 divisions and armies of 5-10 divisions spread out over roughly 50-mile hexes for game turns on the order of a week to a month. Who's to say an army can't be defending a 2-3 hex front or a specialized corps seizing and holding key objectives within only part of a hex? (eg, an airborne corps seizing a port or a mountain corps defending key passes.) It's really like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle of nuclear physics applied to wargaming. Don't focus too hard on the details because there aren't any at this scale. Look at the big picture and enjoy the overall effect. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevGaming Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 You can avoid SEC events (at least on land) by moving Air Fleets close to the front line. Their greater spotting range allows you to see further into enemy terriory. It does however have the down side of having one least Air Fleet for attacking purposes Although saying it that if you employ a sound strategy and have thought in advance of where you are going to attack, loosing an Air Fleet for recon is not a disadvantage. Still. I do get annoyed when you encounter SEC when moving up to attack cities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wagner Posted July 30, 2002 Author Share Posted July 30, 2002 I guess what bothers me is that you suffer two attacks before you can launch one simply because you moved next to a unit. You have the SEC attack then a follow up attack during the AI turn. I will agree though that I may be studying the warts on one tree too closely rather than the beauty of the whole forest, so I'll put my quibble to rest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 I have no problem with surprise contact. It probably simulates the risks of headlong, rapid advance by the main body intent on covering maximum distance. Doing so raises the risks of ambush, bumping into well planned forward defenses, or rear-guard actions. To avoid it, stop short of the objective, and your spotting range is activited, or keep air units near front line units. This simulates units digging in, and sending out patrols and recon elements. This comes with a cost in time or battle effectiveness, of course, but is realistic. Panzer General had surprise contact when you attempted to move into an enemy square, but that game was on a much smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorski Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I think Wagner is right. You should only get sec if you are prevented from moving to the designated hex. Prevented as in the hex is already occupied or a zoc stops you. I don't know how this would change the game, so it should be tested first. For all we know, Hubert has already thought of this and decided on the present system. Gorski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltero Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I have always thought that surprise contact was A bad thing. I never play hidden units, just for that reason. would be better if the surprise contact was A option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslingr3 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Two things, first always take suprise encounters into account when moving your own units. You know how far you can see, are you willing to accept the risk there might be a unit waiting in the fog? Corps are great for holding encirclements, and for scouting. Second, use it to YOUR advantage. It's particularly nice with naval units, but keep an eye open for opportunities to sucker the computer (or your unlucky human opponent) headlong into your own ambush. Think that sub or cruiser is going to flee? Don't chase him, get between him and where he wants to go, just make sure it's out of sight... Gunslinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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