Kuni what happend to W-League?

[Dragonheart]

Is it closed or what happened...? Rambo is in the list as 3rd with the name rambo_withtdrew. I was before 2nd and find myself now on 5 th place although i won ag rambo last thursday.....what a mess :eek:

Can you explain?

[ May 06, 2004, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ]

[Curry]

Dragon, on Rambo, I believe most likely he just changed his name. I am thinking that you can do that in this ladder.

[jon_j_rambo]

World League is a ladder system, not a matter of record.

1) If you beat somebody below you, nobody moves position.

2) If you beat somebody above you, you move up half the distance.

3) If the distance is not divisible by 2, I believe you get to move the extra spot. (Thus 3rd place beats 1st, 3rd place becomes 1st).

Far as my name change. Like I've stated, I'm burned out again, look how many games I've played. Instead of quiting the league like I have in the past, then coming out of retirement, I changed the name to put myself in a frozen state. I'm very busy with work, doing alot of travel...flying to San Diego, Portland, etc.

I'm not totally sure about the Ladder rules, so ask the adminstrator Mr. Kuniworth.

[Dragonheart]

These are all facts well known to me....but i dont understand anyway what happened. In case i m placed now 5th and this is correct whatever the reason is, i will withdraw..... this dumb system.

Maybe you caused the mess as you withdrew all your ongoing games to your opponents.....that sucks if one has beaten you in a regular game.

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonHeart --- What did I do wrong? I post all my losses, always have, always do. If you understand the ladder system, do the math why you're in 5th place. If you don't understand why you're in 5th, then you don't understand the system like you claim you do. If you want to quit, then quit.

[Dragonheart]

No you did nothing wrong....but it sucks when I win ag you ...and afterwards other ppl get my rank as you withdraw.......but not your fault just the system sucks......

hereby i withdraw.....

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonHeart --- A few things.

1) If you're going to compare systems of WL & PL, they both have flaws. WL is a better system, that is my belief, everybody has their own.

2) Yes, you did beat me a game, congrats.

3) PL has faults too. Winner posting the results, ranking up points against weak opponents. In the USA, ranking polls are ALWAYS debated in college football, there's no perfect system. Bowl games, contracts, colliations,etc.

Finally...Lets get to the truth:

Yoda is the World's best player. What you are really trying to say, is you're better than me? We are contending for the #2 spot, right?

So, since your pissed at WL, I'm in this transistion retirement thing. Maybe we should have a little tournament of our own. Rambo vs DragonHeart, who is #2 in the World?

If you're up for a special tournament against me the Legend, that can be easily arranged. Remember something about me, I do my own thing too: Rambo's Christmas Turkey Shootouts, I've down several of these where I played 3-straight days nearly none stop on vacation. Rambo's "Punk'd Tour", where I kepted winning & winning until Condor finally beat me.

If you want be #2, you must play me in some time of showdown, best of 7 or something?

Let me know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LEGEND.

[zappsweden]

Originally posted by Dragonheart:

No you did nothing wrong....but it sucks when I win ag you ...and afterwards other ppl get my rank as you withdraw.......but not your fault just the system sucks......

hereby i withdraw.....

[Dragonheart]

Rambo at least the half out of my 27 wins in WL consist of games ag you and zapp another 5 ag avatar...considered the best players out in WL....i dont have to prove anything to anyone.

And if you recall i was one of the players who beat you in your Punk´d tour.

But anyway this system sucks the only system representing your skill is the top skill ranking.

But i dont care anymore...there are lots of other possiblities where one can play.

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonHeart --- You can post anything you want in PanzerLiga, I don't understand the language. You complain about World League, well goodbye. I post wins & they don't get posted in PanzerLiga, do I cry like you?

You're not half the player of Myself or CodenameClone. You don't carry the torch, you are not the standard of righteousness. You beat me in a 5-minute game after I got done playing a 12-hour game. The reason I want a new timer for SC-2 is because of you, you're the slowest player on the planet. Who do you think gave Codename his 5-losses? Was it you? Can you beat Codename? Can you beat Terif?

Bring it on, in English & the English website.

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonHeart --- And another thing, you call me a quiter of games? I quit the FINALS, repeat, the FINALS...because I flew to Portland, flying to San Diego to make alot of American DOLLARS.

Now, lets step back a minute...were you in the FINALS? I think not, hehehehe...The German Cup had a Swedish-Hero & a Yankee-Legend in the FINALS.

Step in the arena with me, in English.

Thank you, thank you very much >>>>>>> LEGEND

[Dragonheart]

Bah you already lost 20+ hours games also against me so dont look for excuses. Good strategies last their time...no reason to rush and to make stupid mistakes...if i play that slow than dont play me..and i have seen much slower players out here.

But i know why you are saying this....after all we need a good promotion

Meanwhile i answered to you in the other tread....if you want you will get your game (s)

[jon_j_rambo]

DragonHeart --- Your message, comments, & meaning is understood This goes to the battlefield my friend

Rambo vs DragonHeart

Tickets are available at your local outlet stores, kids under 15, must have parental permission to attend (that's means CvM & some_god).

[dev0]

Rambo the burnout legend vs Dragonheart the Cat

where can i buy vip tickets?

[ May 06, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: dev0 ]

[Kuniworth]

Hey Dragonheart,

If Rambo wants to withdraw not much I can do about it. If he retires in the middle of your games it is something that should between you. Ive had to give Liam a win against Oliva has this dude refused to post his losses but otherwise I will act carefully about such issues.

However I believe it's a good thing that you speak your mind here in the forum: This gives other people oppurtunity to review the case and get an opinion.

You can call yourself the best player by far at the moment. I hope you stay in the league and work yourself up to the no 1 spot. You desereve it.

[Kuniworth]

I believe Avatar won some games which made him advance in rank, same thing with Liam.

THat is the explanation.

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

Hey Dragonheart,

I hope you stay in the league and work yourself up to the no 1 spot. You desereve it.

To late Kuni i withdrew already.

[Feldtrompeter]

Hi Rambo

1) The PL is a "non-competetive" league. It fits both the professional and the casual player. A ladder system like in W-league does NOT encourage people to play many matches - but that is what keeps a league alive.

In the PL you do not play to prove how good you are compared to the other players of the league but to have fun and enjoy the game(s). Thus you slowly collect your points during your membership and automatically - after more or less games - reach the rank of a General.

Who cares in the PL about who is first after a season? Nobody. That only gives you some insignificant extra points and a special medal. Wow, great!

Why should only the best players get the price when others who play many more games are adding much more to the league's comunity and its existence?

For those who like to compete and to demonstrate their relative skill compared to others the PL offers tournaments once in a while and whenever league members organize them.

That in mind I don't see a problem about people in the PL who play weaker players just to collect points - the league is not competetive from the begionning, so why being worried about others who have a higher rank than yourself?

Competition you'll find in the tournaments and in each and every one of your matches - but not when it comes to the rank in the league.

2) The PL had some difficulties with the reports recently (from 28.02 - April). You need to send your reports of that time again to the one who is now in charge of the reports. That one's name is: BoPeep. You can do that via mail or ICQ. Just give him the names of your opponents and the result of the matches and he will type it in - and correct errors, when the current problems are finally fixed ...

Yours

Feldtrompeter

[ May 06, 2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Feldtrompeter ]

[Kuniworth]

Hey Feldtromper,

great info.

[zappsweden]

Yes, there are differences between PL and W-League. To say it is not competition in PL is not so obvious I think. I mean, Dragonheart (Konigstiger) and Terif both have roughly the same punkte. Coincidence? Do not tell me that Dragonheart never had one single thought of getting the #1 rank (which he did momentarily) and that Terif did not think of getting the #1 spot back (which he did). I would be suprised if none of them cared about the ranking table. Why else have a table?

Both leagues are good. I prefer W-League ladder style where you have one Champ (Currently Avatar) and when he gets beat in a Championship he loses the title.

When I face Rambo, Terif, Dragonheart, Avatar and other top ranked and play games that last 20+ hours, ofcourse both players try to win. I mean, why trying to make the best possible move if you are not trying to win. Makes no sense...

Motivation factor = factor of trying your best. But winning is not only the important. Maybe "winning" is the wrong word. The important word is "doing great". I could lose a game but still be pleased that I did a great effort in that game. Getting a high rank is an indicator of performing.

My motivation is rarely 100% and I often find myself doing minor mistakes (especially after a few hours) because I do not have the motivation to double check everything and play evenr longer games.

So. Any player that find it fun winning games surely find it fun being ranked high or even become Champ. Take Liam for instance. He lost LOTS of games in the World Championship Ladder and the Zappleague but has improved heaps and now is ranked #2 in W-League (he beat me, rambo and other top ranked a few times too). I salute him, he deserves it.

[ May 06, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by zappsweden:

Yes, there are differences between PL and W-League. To say it is not competition in PL is not so obvious I think. I mean, Dragonheart (Konigstiger) and Terif both have roughly the same punkte. Coincidence? Do not tell me that Dragonheart never had one single thought of getting the #1 rank (which he did momentarily) and that Terif did not think of getting the #1 spot back (which he did). I would be suprised if none of them cared about the ranking table. Why else have a table?

Zapp this is not true. I played many games as i love it to play SC. Collecting points is nice but not priority. Sure everybody want to be No1. but what is giving me a No1 in Panzerliga? I know and everybody knows that Terif is the best player. If i really wanted to be no one i would never play him because he just gains points for his victories ag me. Without the games ag him i would be No 1 because he would have had 88 points less. But why i should do this?....i wanna play as many ppl as possible and i also wanna play Terif from time to time.

The system in WL sucks as it never guarantees that really to currently best player is No1.

Its fine to be no1 there but not really essential but this time i wanted to get the first rank for a while.........you know its a good feeling .

In the period when i had i 8:0 winning streak ag you and got a total winning streal of 17 victories in a row i got the first rank....but Kuni banned me from this rank. Now i fought myself back got the second rank by winnning ag rambo and was one win away from having the crown.

Then Rambo quits and due to the order he did his reports i find myself on No 5 again.......this sucks really as this time i had a target to be No. 1. Is that system really fair????

I will give you an example.

I was no 5 and won ag no 1 giving me the second place......but now the no 1 withdraws. and reported in that order...loss ag no 3 ...i drop to 3....loss ag no 4,5 or 6 i drop to 4 loss ag no 5,6 or 7 i drop to 5........man what a great system.

Another time i won as no 6 ag no 1 giving me rank 4, but as to the same time no 5 won ag no 3, and the formally no 4 won ag no 3 i find myself again on no 6.

As you can see its sometimes just timing of the reports deciding your place.

Sure when play alot of games and win every game i will reach once No 1. puhhh great But that a little bit to much effort.

How can you explain that the player with a rekord of 27:7 games with 10 victories ag zapp with 9 victories ag rambo with 5 victories ag avatar, 1 ag liam,1 ag Dalmatia Partisan and 1 ag oliva is not ranked No1????????????

This system is **** and there is no reason to defend this system.

I rather prefer to be the 2nd in panzerliga for my lifetime, but to be free in decision with who i play and how many games play within a certain timeframe.

Cheers Dragonheart

[zappsweden]

Originally posted by Dragonheart:

How can you explain that the player with a rekord of 27:7 games with 10 victories ag zapp with 9 victories ag rambo with 5 victories ag avatar, 1 ag liam,1 ag Dalmatia Partisan and 1 ag oliva is not ranked No1????????????

This system is **** and there is no reason to defend this system.

I rather prefer to be the 2nd in panzerliga for my lifetime, but to be free in decision with who i play and how many games play within a certain timeframe.

Cheers Dragonheart

I will give a simple explanation. You did not win the right games. You won 8 games in a row ag me but in the later weeks when I was Champ, you did not beat me (I have a +3 streak ag you currently). Instead Rambo beat me and later Avatar beat him.

Winning a Championship game = You're new Champ.

Likewise, Wayne Gretzky is not any longer ranked #1 in NHL scoring table just because he was enormous some years ago and scoring higher average than anyone today.

Say for example I play 100-0 in W-League and am undisputed Champ and then i lose 10 games in a row. Should i then be able to say "I must be champ since I have 100-10 record, a record better than anyone else"? IMO not. There COULD be someone out there that currently is in better shape and rounding up victories.

The best system would be to have a series played over an entire season where every player played every other player same amount of times. But, what would then happen if I play Condor (great player) and lose and then Condor retires and you get a free Walk Over win?

No system is fair. Anyway, I have currently a +3 streak ag Dragonheart, +1 streak ag Rambo, close game vs Avatar going on and games ag Kuniworth and Dalmatia which I am very sure I will win. So, if you had beaten me the last 3 games you would surely be Champ again. You did beat me when you were champ but later when I became Champ (after Kuni) I beat you 3 times in a row. How could you become Champ losing 3 games in a row ag the Champ?

So, what system make the one that is currently best the Champ?

Answer: Neither W-League nor Panzerliga. In W-League you could be current best but if not playing the Champ then you will never get the tops spot. In Panzerliga, you could be current best but be beaten by anyone who played more games than you.

So, this is contradictory. You say that W-League not necessarily make the current player to become Champ and rather play in Panzerliga where you could theoretically could have a 100-0 and be beaten by someone who has 110-110 in the rankings...

In W-League, if you continously collect wins and play often you will get to the 2-3 rank spot and when you then win against the Champ you become Champ, simple. I like that ladder style

The last thing u wrote Dragonheart about choocing who you play???

I did not understand that. In W-League you need to play once every 50 days with no restriction to whom you play.

[ May 06, 2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Feldtrompeter]

Hi Zapp

I agree with most of what you said.

There is competition in the PL indeed. But as I said I see that more in the matches or tournaments and not so much in getting the desired rank.

In a ladder like W-league the bait for good performance is, as you write, the rank. That is indisputable and a very well suiting motivation. The PL has a different motivation: The bait for good performance lays here in keeping your record (statistic) clean (if you care of cause).

And think of this: even if Königstiger and Terif were playing game upon game to get the crown, would the league benefit from this race, yes or no? It sure would. Because the more games there are played, the more rivived a league gets and the healthier the league becomes.

And even if Königstiger would finally succeed in collecting more points than Terif: that wont mean much to all of those who have taken a look into the statistics of those two and have found out for themselves about their direct competitions (for those who need it ).

For top players who frequenly play SC, a ladder system is well suiting. But for the rest of the players (including PBEM players) a system like that which is used in the PL is more appropriate I think.

There have been discussions (and still are) in the PL forum about adding a feature to the league that roughly reflects the skill level of the players. However, up to this time the PL has not decided to do so because it feels that the statistics of the players that can easily be seen in the league also fulfil that part adequately.

Yours

Feldtrompeter

[zappsweden]

But Dragonheart. I agree with one thing. In the event where a player retires or take a break and post several losses in just a short time, the system could be bad but nothing is perfect.

[Kuniworth]

I would like to play a league. You face every player twice, once as allies once as axis: That would be great.