Iron Ranger Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I'm interested in hear how many people play the game past 42. Many of the latest post deal with the 'imbalance' of the system. However, how many games really reach past 42 when the allies stop the axis and into 43 when they turn the tide back. Normally one player or the other get too depressed after 1-2 major mistakes and asks for terms (I've done it many times, why play for another 3-4 hour when you know it's a lock for the other guy) Personally I've only had two serious games reach past mid 42. And one of them I'm still playing and we've reached mid 44. The game has followed a very historical arch, even though that was not our intent. 1939 Normal 1940 Germany cleans out France and beats the daylight out of England. However all their sacrifice is not in vain. They hold out till fall 40 and save an entire army group of FF troops, however the brit lose all thier fighters and one carrier. Late 40 - summer 41 Germany eats as many minors as she can getting the historcal ones plus Sweden. The british jump the Itialian navy off the coast of Greece and sink most of her ships. They also take North Africa. Italy lands in Canada and steals some MPPS. Late 41 - Germany invades Russia and applies the standard 'kill everybody' opening move. In the second turn Russia see's an exposed armor in the swamp east of Riga and attacks. An entire army (HQ back, so good readness) group goes after that one armor. After the combat the Red Armys entire northern army is weakend and the army sits in the swamp smileing at one strenght. The ensuing counter attack wipes out several units, only one corp get out alive. After this it's retreat, retreat, retreat back to the finial river defence. We now wait for 42 - the Siberian units have soldified the allies lines and Germany is reiforcing like mad. The western allies take scicly. The FF army group takes Iraq. Summer 42 The battle of Stalingrad at Moscow. Backed by 10 air fleets the german army pushs forward even though supply is low. Thier opening move destroys the Red Armys best HQ and batters all her fighters. Then the gray host slowly pounds forward and takes Moscow 2-4 turns latter. The allies realize this is the KEY battle operate the entire FF army group to stem the tide and send in the American HQ and all her fighters and counter attack (russia also drains her R&D and brings every unit not on the line back to the Moscow front, this kills the push to knock out finland before the geramns arive). The counter attack works and two armor groups and the 4th army are surrounded and destroyed plus other minor units. The sucess of this battle was due to pure luck, in the span of 3-6 turns the American air went to L4 jets while the Germans and Itialins were still flying L0 planes, the battle field was HEAPED with wrecked axis air fleets. 43 stailmate - The americans march up the boot of Italy is slow and the landing a Anzio fails with the distruction of the first army. On the bright side USA teachs the Itialians another lesson in L4 jets vs L0 biplanes. The brits are training her ground units in the Mts of Norway and cutting supply line everywhere with self made partisans. In Russia the Red Army is boged down. The German army is too experenced and entrenched to push back, however where they can find axis minor or itialian units they attack, destroy the unit and slip a corps in its place. In other words a slow grind forward while she builds experence. Germany attempts a 43 Sealion but is repulsed when the American jets operated back to England, note germany has L2 jets now and some air fleets do survive this time. Very early 44 - Overlord - Two seperate landings take place in France, but they do NOT join and the western allies are left with two seperat pockets of troops and can't effectivly push forward. They do pull a large number of german units out of russia and now the red tide is flowing west. The Red Army still can't attack the german army directly but she has so many corps and pushs them into every hole that apparies the the germans have to give ground. The eastern front is one fluid mass as Russian corps move forword and suround german units then german tanks (L3) show up and destroy everything in their path. At one point the entire german army was seperated from the Fatherland, this only lasted one turn as there are plenty of HQs to provided some form of supply to the gray host. Present day - Late 44 - The two bridgeheads in France have finally joined and the supply situation is starting to resulve its self in Italy. On the eastern front, one to two german units are being wiped out every turn and the baltic region has been liberated. I don't know how this will finish but looking like a mid to late 45 ending. But like Patton said during the Battle of the Bulge "we can still lose this war and talk of being home by Christmas is pure bunk" or something close to this. With one or two tech advaces and alittle luck the Axis could still turn the tide, they still out number the allies in units since they went to buying corps to plug all thier holes and the HQ all have 4 bars of experence while the allies might have 1.5. How many other players have gone this 'deep'. I (and perhaps everyone else) would like to hear whats happened in these other games? Or is it always like when I play Terif. I make a minor mistake (I think) and he pounds and pounds on that area untill its a critical problem and the game is over. One thing I learned was the extream dificalty of a true Overlord, not a quicky 42 version that gets pushed back easy, but the hard grind pushing ahead in hegrow country. Enough for now, I've been up for 26 hours. Any comments would be appreated, even another miny AAR. I'm just interested in hearing how many other games end up close to balanced and therefore run past 42. And so the question really is: Is the game/ system imbalaced and needing a fix / house rules or are the level of players imbalanced? Side note this was a ladder game with a bid of 150MPPs and the LC gambit was used to hold back the gray host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 Reread my post, sorry on the spelling and grammer. I guess both suck after being awake since 9am on Thursday. I hope the post is not totally unreadable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Thanks for the AAR, was appreciated. You are right, I PBEM, and by 1942 you can usually tell what direction the game is going. I keep hoping for a 1944 and beyond game to occur, and I think my game has finally improve enough to reach this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Iron Ranger And they accuse me of making long posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubarno Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Here is my perspective from the Axis side: 1939 Captured Warsaw and Poland falls in two turns. Operational movement to the west to counter expected LC gambit. 1940 LC gambit performed flawlessly and an imposing river defence set up with a British corp in the river hex protecting the flank of Antwerp while the French army entrenches. First attempt to gain a bridgehead fails miserably with extreme air losses from heavy air battles over Belgium and Holand. Looking at my weak economy, depleted forces and relative minor damage done to the river defence and I am feeling a bit of frustration and humiliation. Take Dennmark overland style with help of air. Allied navies have destroyed my Atlantic uboat fleet and are sortied into the Baltic to harrass my meager navy. Air force repaired to full strength just in time to attack a French tank corps that moved into front line to replace heavily damaged French army. Lack of entrenchment and experience allows me to destry it and gain my first toehold over the river. Meanwhile the allied fleets have destroyed the Kriegsmarine as the Luftwaffe too occupied with supporting the land battle to lend support. Iron Ranger quite pleased with the sea war as his losses, especially to the British navy, are quite lite. Slowly now the wermacht grinds forward, never pressing in too far to be out of supply and never attacking if the counterattack would cause destruction. A breakthrough here and the supporting air attacks manage to extoll a heavy price in British air corps destroyed in France and England. Eventually, near the end of '40 I believe, Italy throws in with the axis. They contribute by capturing Marseilles. One Italian corps embarks on transports and slips out to sea to perform a secret (gamey) mission. They are lucky and are not intercepted. I eventually capture Paris and defeat France, but not before Bilote, a corps or two, 2 armies and the French air corps escape to England. 1941 My timetable is all screwed up but I have time, I think, because of the anger Russia and the US feel over the invasion of LC's by France and Britain. I begin my whirlwind campaign of defeating minors, building my economy and plundering. Sweden, Norway minus the north western town, Yugoslavia and then the Italians take Greece. Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria have all joined the victory train. Meanwhile the Allies have been busy in the Med. Landings and assaults have taken place against my Tobruk garison. The Italian Army is defeated but I operate an airfleet in followed by the Albanian corp to save the day. The Italian fleet sorties to support. One Brit battleship group sunk and others wounded but the Brit bomber in malta turns the tide and my two barely surviving battle ship groups are severly depleted and retreat. One hiding for months at 1 pt in the Aegean sea and the other with three points ported in the Adriatic. Italian mpp's are spent on a HQ and two air to defend her coast. With the sea lanes unprotected, Brit aircraft carrier supports the second round of attacks against Tobruk which falls. My preperatins for Barbarossa have been going well and a huge force now lines the Russian border from the Baltic to the Black Sea. The Italians even have two armies and a tank corps suported by HQ. I have managed to squeze purchase four points of tech investment, 1 in jets, 1 in long range air, one in tanks, and one in anti tanks. I have recieved one upgrade in tanks. Relations with Russia rapidly degrade and I get the message that USSR prepares for war. I attack although I am exactly one turn from being completely prepared. The frontier is blitzed and much destruction is exacted on the red army. 1942 Lines of Russian corps are formed up north and south of the pripet marshes. As I attack and threaten breakthrough the red army retreats to the next line. Using this tactic they are able to avoid taking much in the way of permanent losses. I must say that Iron Rangers organized retreat was perfect and may have been the difference in the game. The US prepares for for war and the Italian corp, emmerging from a fog bank in the Atlantic, lands in Canada and forces the government to sue for peace. Surely this has disrupted the attack on Iraq as the Canadian corps and army have been busy in African operations. My opponent seems somewhat demoralized. I am quite pleased. The Russians have backed up to a jagged line using rivers and strong points coming down from the front in Finnland through Lenningrad, Moscow and down to Stalingrad and swinging across to Rostov and the Crimean peninsula. Manstein, a tank group, corp and air corp are in Finnland to support. IR (Iron Ranger) has made this front a priority defence with Eremenko in support of armies, corps tanks and air. After initial probes my forces lay back to reload and refit. Air forces, 2 Italian and 6 German are concentrated in front of the moscow front and Zhukov HQ can be seen behind the lines. Zhukov is the first target and then Moscow which are taken in succession. I refit again. The rest of the line is in defensive mode with small skirmishes here and there. I lose a couple of tank corps. All of Italian N Africa is in Aliied hands with American support and I know an attack on Iraq is imminent. The Free French invade Iraq and slowly pound on the Iraqi's gaining valuable experience. I eventually give it to IR's forces. My 2 surviving Italian battle ships are repaired with Canadian plunder but are wasted on stupid moves. Allied ships pounce. They will be sorely missed later. My next push in Russia goes well as an army and a tank corp push across the river north of Moscow. This is the Axis high water mark. The Free French are supporting the Russian defence and now the American air have appeared and decimate my own tecnologically inferior air with level three and then level 4 tech. I get a level 1 upgrade just in time for me to reinforce. Very costly! Soon after level 2. My bridgedead is cutoff and decimated. Goring couldn't resuply by air. Norway is proving to be a thorne with a Brit HQ tank corp, army and 2 corps forcing me to bring my own army and HQ to support 2 corps. Stalemate. Allies are costantly feinting with corps on transport. Romania, Bulgaria, Bremen, Sweden, northern Italy are all places where corps land and draw my dwindling resources. Partisans in Russia and Yugo are a problem because I have pulled rear gaurds to fill gaps and meet threats. I fall back on defensive positions in Russia, transfer all air west as well as a crack pair of HQ's and prepare for a 43' Sea Lion. Unfortunately my air was spotted and he was able to reinforce and thwart my invasion. The transports disgourged the invasion force back to France. I had a short lived attempt to head for the US with the embarked forces but one interception and fear of a trap made me think better. My air force is again obliterated in air battles over the channel. Americans have captured Sicily and are pressing onto the boot. I managed to destroy one American army. Russia is a war of attrition, exposed points getting attacked and exploited by Red army and my rapid reaction forces responding and plugging the line. IR has the initiative and is dealing out more damage. Brits in Norway fall back and leave a 3 corp garisson. One corps tries to land north of Berlin but is thwarted. End of 43' brings an early invasion by Brits in both Belgium and Brittany/Normandy. I am able to form a line from Marsielles through the countryside outside Paris to Antwerp. 1944 My air is obliterated in France again and retreats to lick wounds and refit. A war of attrition goes on for a bit in France as neither side can punch a hole. I know IR will get those jets going again soon and punch through. Finnland falls. Russia turns my flanks in the far north and the far south. I retraet to form a new line that twists from the southern swamps, past the pripet marshes and around Minsk and up to the Baltic city. Italy is sorely pressed. Americans from the south and massed Russians landing north of Rome. The Italian defence around Rome is 1 HQ, three corps and an army. They are surrounded. Two Italian armies, an HQ and a tank corp still fight on the Russian front. My hopes of victory are nil but a stalemate is still a possibility. I must protect the fatherland. Note: I'm not going to proofread so appologies for typo's and run-ons up front. It's been a fun game IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I had a game never finished non-ladder. That was less 8 months from ending date. The Germans were pushed back through Romania. The Allies were in Normandy but not advancing. With German tech and MPP I was still pretty much staying at a point where I think my capitol would hold all the way through though he thought otherwise... Good chance I could've held out till the end...we never finished to see though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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