daystrom Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I was wondering if anyone has compiled a list of factors that affect Finnish entry? For example, in a current PBEM game (as Axis), I am about 8-9 months into Barbarossa and still no Finns. I did take Sweden and Norway, and my current PBEM partner suggested that this Scandanavian adventurism may have slowed (stopped?) Finnish entry. That being said, has anyone identified the factors that affect Finnish entry? regards, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iolo Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I only know that on two occasions, after completing Sea Lion (and taking Norway before starting Barbarossa) Finland remained neutral throughout the game. (Sweden was untouched.) For me this worked out well, since I find them to be something of a liability (apologies to all Finns of course...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daystrom Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Strange, I have never seen the Finns completely opt out of the war. Good to know though. I agree that at times the Finns can be a liability, but late entry can be good, especially if the Allied player is hard pressed in defending Russia from the current German offensive. I have sent a HQ and a few units to a newly joined Finland with great effect on a few occasions. regards, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 It seems to me that if you take a defensive posture to the USSR early then the Finns stay out of the war for the entire game (well untile you declare war on them anyway). I guess this typically happens when you try Sea Lion. IOWs I think you need to make early gains against USSR for the Finns to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I think when germany gain areas earlier in east front, it will make the finns stay away from the axis. In my game, finns always join the axis when soviets cross their original borders. Finns never join the war if i pounded sovyet with everything that i had in the first couple turn of the eastern front. Also, in my game, finns will not join the war if axis declared to sovyet. nor if usa declared first before sovyet. Hubert, please release a guideline for Minor Country. It will make gameplay more chalanging. Earlier entry of turkey will forces allies player to deffend caucasus from axis invasion directly from turkey. also finns declaration will make russia deffend their norther border, thus weakening their reinforcement in the eastern wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daystrom Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 The Finns did finally join the war effort, about a year after the Barbarossa commenced. I will clarify the circumstances of this a little better. I did not perform a Sea Lion. I issued a DOW against the Soviets, albeit it a late one by historical standards (around August 41 if memory serves correct). In this particular game I did not invest heavily in German tech, instead opting for as many panzer groups (with HQs) as I could afford prior to the invasion. These purchases were financially supported by my capture of Norway and Sweden (in addition to France, Benelux countries, Denmark, and Yugo). I attacked across the Soviet border on two major axis; in the center dropping southward below the Prippet Marshes, and a smaller attack to the north (partly a demonstration attack, but later developing into a push (ultimately) towards Leningrad. I made excellent initial progress against the Soviet forces, rapidly destroying the majority of their initial front line defensive positions in the first two turns. Eventually the onslaught slowed due to supply problems and forced reorganizations on my part. Siberian transfer was triggered and my opponent made some nice tactical offensives forcing sections of my spearheads out of supply, which required me to shift some offensive focus to the rectification of these matters. Eventually the Finns did declare, but I cannot see a pattern to their behavior. As you have read, in this game I was very aggressive against the Soviets, and they did not enter at the outset. There have been others where I also took to the offensive and had them enter right away (but I cannot remember if in these situations I was as aggressive in Scandanavia). Personally, were I Mannerheim, I would be much more inclined to attack the Soviets if the Germans were giving the Soviet armies "the business" hard and early, than if they (the Germans) were taking a defensive posture along the Eastern Front. While I would like to be aware of the factors that contribute to minor entry, I don't think that I would want to eliminate all randomness to these events. It would be nice to know that my actions A, B, and C are "likely" to bring about the entry of nation X by increasing a probability for entry, but not for certain. I think an element of this equation must involve a call to rand() in this case to keep it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daystrom Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vodka: Earlier entry of turkey will forces allies player to deffend caucasus from axis invasion directly from turkey.Hey Vodka, I have never had occasion to see a Turkish entry. I have tried Sea Lion and non-Sea Lion approaches just to try and bring this about but with no luck. This probably belongs in another thread, but have you seen one and how (do you think) you brought this about? regards, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Actually, i think it depends on two things: No invasion of sweden and how uch you gain on the northern front in the firsdt turn. CVM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I think carl is correct. I didn't attack sweden nor norway. I went directly to low country and france after the fall of Poland. While investing long range aircraft science from the money that i got from plunder. Than i launched sea lion soon after france surrendered. and took london one turn after the forces landed in britain. Spain and turkey join the axis soon after london fell. (in version 1.02) but not in version 1.04. (Hubbert, is there any tweak in 1.04???) Sovyet and USA declared to Axis soof after london fell. The cost of early sea lion (late 1941) is so great since some of the army didn't make it to the beach. Also, eastern wall is left guarded with only 2 corps. thus, Sea lion will be justified only if it is a 100% chance that spain and turkey join the axis. Otherwise it will be economicly better to invaded denmark, norway, swisszeland, vitchy and sweden, took all the plundered money and prepared to go all out attack in the eastern front. while waiting level 5 jet comes to pound britain in 1942. Britain will not survive 500 mpp a turn axis with lv 5 jet and lv 5 long range fighter anyway. So why bother late 1941 sea lion. I would love to see an official rule that guarantee that the fall of london before barbarosa will greatly increase the probability spain and turkey join the axis. Indeed, no player in pbbm will try to launch early sea lion as the historically happended in late 1941 and still launch barbarosa if Spain and turkey would not join the axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Spain and turkey join the axis soon after london fell. (in version 1.02) but not in version 1.04. (Hubbert, is there any tweak in 1.04???) Sovyet and USA declared to Axis soof after london fell.Nope no changes in this area since v1.0 Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts