veki Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Well Hubert, I know that you had enough suggestion but just one more and I think a smart one. Sorry if you have it already in final release. I suggest that a player have at start of game manual set up of his units. And most important that a player have manual units set up when some major or minor countries decide enter the war. This, between others, can resolve problem of some negative strategies against neutral Italy mentioned in this forum. What do you think? Greetings, Veki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 A fine idea, implemented as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 I like the idea of a manual setup for the start of a game. I'm not sure how you'd implement a manual setup of a neutral country, because of two things: 1. which side would get to do the setup? Axis does the setup for Italy, then invades Italy and takes an empty Rome... 2. When would the setup occur? Upon the DOW? If so, then a PBEM game stops, so the other player can do the setup? Conversely, if it's done at the begining of the game, you'd end up in the same situation, where a player can take advantage of the setup. Keep neutrals controlled by the AI, but possibly randomize their setup. Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Keep neutrals controlled by the AI, but possibly randomize their setup. I prefer this idea. It would require some work on Hubert's part, but perhaps the AI could select a setup based on the situation. Spain, for example could have a standard setup, a northern defense against a German DOW, or a southern defense against a British DOW. There are not too many options available for most neutrals, but some randomizing would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Allowing manual setup for units at the start of a game was actually considered at one time, but I felt it would be against the point of having historical campaigns. Including the 'Campaign Editor' will somewhat do this and allow you to tweak the Campaign setup however you like. Manual setup for DoW would (I feel) get a little messy in terms of game play, but I have tweaked some of the gamey strategies (notably for Italy and the US) as well as slightly adjusted a few nations as suggested including Switzerland, Sweden and Turkey so all in all these areas should play out fine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: ...snip... so all in all these areas should play out fine now. Sounds to me like SC is ready to go! Hubert, thank you for all your recent replies... must have lots of free time on your hands... now that the game is ready... Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veki Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 Hubert, You are right about manual setup after DOW. It will be messy and I agree with Bill Macon suggestion "Keep neutrals controlled by the AI, but possibly randomize their setup" or suggestion that "AI could select a setup based on the situation". But for manual set up at start I don't understand your explanation. I was under impression that the SC game will be so great because players have opportunity to change historical events. You can put an option (button) for historical set up but why Axis player can’t attack first France or Great Britain in 1939 and then Poland for instance? Sorry if I misunderstand you and thank you again for all your recent replies. Veki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I can live with the setups for now. We could consider a Summer 1939 scenario which gives us a fixed historical setup but allows us a few turns to complete our force pool with a couple of units and reposition forces for an alternate strategy if we want. Perhaps with no spotting in effect until war is declared, to make things really interesting. Either Hubert can provide such a scenario with the game or we can use the editor to make one without too much trouble. Italy and Russia should start the game as active neutrals. Let the historical or random entry determine when they can declare war against the other major powers. Prior to that, they should be able to build their force pool, deploy their defense, perform research, attack minors if they want, or whatever. With FOW, only units within spotting range of attacked minors would be visible to the other major powers, so Italy and Russia could conduct their business in secret and be wildcards in this game. Think of the possibilities! I see this as more important than trying to get manual setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 You are right about manual setup after DOW. It will be messy and I agree with Bill Macon suggestion "Keep neutrals controlled by the AI, but possibly randomize their setup" or suggestion that "AI could select a setup based on the situation". Actually the default setup for neutral countries does follow some logic for the ones that it can be applied to, for example Turkey has a different setup depending upon who declares whether the Axis or Allies declare war on them, and this applies to a few other countries as well, can't remember off the top of my head. But for manual set up at start I don't understand your explanation. I was under impression that the SC game will be so great because players have opportunity to change historical events. This is still true and can be done in several ways, it was just that I wanted to have the 6 historical campaigns setup as they were historically for obvious reasons. Now what constitutes a "what-if" is the real question here, a what-if can be looked at in terms of let's say I am playing Germany in 1939 and I attack and defeat Poland as was done historically, now how do I conduct the rest of the war, do I attack France, do I go for Russia, do I plan Sea Lion right away, do I attack France through Switzerland instead of the Low Countries etc. So from this example I am looking at a "what -if" in the historical context that the initial phase may be historical but I am free to conduct the next 5 years as I wish. Another way to consider the what if is as you've pointed out, what if Germany did not attack Poland right away and wen't straight for France etc., what then? These types of "what-if's" can be achieved with the Campaign editor. Sorry if I misunderstand you and thank you again for all your recent replies.No problems Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Italy and Russia should start the game as active neutrals.Although, this was a design decision it will be considered for future versions, might add some variety as you've mentioned Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Hmmm, this begs a question about whether my suggestion of a Summer 1939 scenario is possible. Could we even have a scenario where Germany, Britain and France start out as active neutrals? Probably not. It's definitely something to keep on the ToDo list for a future version. There would also have to be something to prompt a state of war by a certain date, otherwise you could have a dull game. This raises another question about whether there should be an abstract MPP cost for declaring war. This works well in 3R, and makes you think about whether Italy should DOW Britain or wait for Britain to pay for it. There should be a cost/benefit associated with strategic decisions like this. A similar system would make SC a little more complicated, but should be considered with the active neutrals idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Another quick question. Can we use the editor to change the setups for neutrals? I'm primarily wondering about Italy and Russia, but also all neutrals in general. I was just reading another post about where is the Italian air force when they enter the game. Just wondering if we can edit stuff like this or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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