Sc2 - Alternative History Option

[Edwin P.]

Since SC is a game of what-ifs it would be interesting if SC2 had an Alternative History option choice button that would allow for events such as;

20% If Axis attacks Denmark + Switzerland then a chance for a Norwegian Swedish Defense Treaty. This means that attacking one nation causes an automatic DOW against the other nation.

20% If Axis Conquers England then the British Allied Territoris (Egypt, Malta, Canada, etc) continue the fight and become American Territories until the UK is liberated. The US also gains all Merchant Shipping MPPs that were going to the UK until the UK is liberated.

10% If UK withdraws all land troops from Egypt then an Egyptian military coup occurs and it becomes a neutral nation.

10% If Algeria is not garrisoned then it revolts and becomes an independent neutral nation.

50% If Egypt and Algeria are independent neutral nations and no Italian forces garrison Libya then Libya revolts and becomes an independent neutral nation.

10% If the UK surrenders then Spanish forces occupy/liberate/annex Gibraltar if Spain is still Neutral.

20% If the Germans conquer Cairo and Iraq is still Neutral then the Turks annex Iraq. This increases to 50% if Turkey controls Vichy Syria.

5% When France surrenders Turkey annexes Vichy Syria.

When the US enters the War the US allied player has the option to select for the US a 1)Europe Victory First Strategy or a 2) Pacific Victory First Strategy. Selecting the Pacific Victory Strategy would reduce US MPP production and accelerate the Russian Siberian Transfer.

When Germans Capture London and If Egypt is still UK Controlled the Brits have the option to

1. Give Egypt to the Americans or 2. Give Egypt to Turkey. If the UK gives Egypt to Turkey then Turkey also annexes Vichy Syria if it is unoccupied. If the UK gives Egypt to the Americans then it is connected via Sea Lanes to the US for purposes of supply and building new units in Egypt.

I believe that such events would add to the game without requiring a lot of time for programming.

[ December 10, 2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

Those all sound cool to me.

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

They sound good to me as well, but by Alternative History, shouldn't we really mean that the war itself starts out under circumstances different from those of the Historical situation?

Such as: The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact calls for the USSR to DoW the British and French Empires if they DoW Germany due to Poland. The Soviet understanding with Germany is it moves on Afghanistan, India and Iran, agreeing that Iraq and all points west to the African coast are in the German (+Italian) sphere of influence.

-- Such an alternate history option would have had profound effects upon the future course of the war.

---- Add a doublecross option where Germany can later revoke the agreement without prior notice and immediately DoW the USSR.

------ USSR doublecross option is less effective and can't take place till the Spring of 1943.

If both the USSR & Japan join against the British and French the United States war-readiness either doubles or moves to 60%, whichever is higher.

Much of this would need to be handled in off-map actions, but they can also become very interesting.

Only a thought, but something along those lines.

[Edwin P.]

Any comments HC?

[Feldtrompeter]

Other historical alternatives:

1) If GB falls and the US hasn't declared war yet, the US war readiness is set to 0% and she stayes out of war except for a German DOW.

2) If Norway is taken by the Axis and UK surrenders there's an 75% chance of Sweden joining the Axis.

3) If the Axis places 5 Units at the Yuguslavian border during 1941 the Pro Allied Coup won't happen.

4) When Greece is taken by the Axis and there are no allied forces in the Med then there is an 30% chance of Turkey joining the Axis and a 50% chance of Yugoslavia joining the Axis.

5) When the Axis takes Riga there is a 50% chance of the baltic states being liberated by Germany and joining the Axis.

6) When the USA joins the allied union a pop-up window apears and the Axis player chooses wheather Japan invades the USSR. If so, the Siberians won't come.

7) If Turkey joins the Axis or surrenders to Germany then there is a 70% chance of Iraq becoming a Axis fellow state.

8)

Feldtrompeter

[John DiFool]

Just brainstorming here, but...

I recall how Totaler Krieg did things: they had

Event/Variant Cards which the players could play

at certain points. In SC2 this could be done any

of several ways:

Out of (say) 20 Event Cards per side each player

gets 5 (randomly), which he can then play at the

appropriate moment (simple example being a German

The-Japs-Get_Ornery No Siberian Transfer card).

or

Everyone gets all cards, each of which has a

point value, some being worth more than others:

you have 10 points to work with, so spend them

wisely (i.e. the No S.T. might be worth ~3 points).

Some cards would be definite two-edged swords

(Totaler Krieg had a German Total War Footing card

IIRC which, while allowing for increased production,

also had some rather steep negative consequences

too like early US entry or somesuch).

I'll leave it to Edwin to devise specific examples.

John DiFool

[Edwin P.]

John DiFool I like your idea.

Totaler Krieg

The mechanics of card play in Totaler Krieg! (that is, the fact that you have to select your cards a Season in advance) place a clear and simple emphasis on planning and preparation. Once each Season you hold a sort of Führer Conference (during the Option Card Segment), at which your staff presents you with a series of options (your card hand). After some head-scratching, you select one and tell them to get cracking. Two or three turns later, the plan matures, the card is revealed, and you’re good to go.

Or so you hope.

Axis Option Cards

Allied Option Cards

Soviet Option Cards

See Also World in Flames Site for more ideas for event cards

Sample Event Card:

1. Relocate Russian Capital (to any other Russian City - play this to relocate the capital even if Moscow is surrounded)

2. Scandinavian League (UK Diplomats encourage Scandinavian countries to sign a mutual defense treaty and remain neutral)

1. No Effect

2. Norway & Sweden

3. Sweden & Finland

4. Sweden & Baltic States

5. No Effect

6. Sweden & Baltic States & Finland

3. Transit Rights Over Turkey - UK Diplomats have secured permission for UK Air and Bomber Fleets from bases in Egypt to overfly Turkish Air Space to/from Russia in exchange for recognition of Turkish soverignty over Iraq.

4. US Launches Unrestricted Naval Warfare - Neutral US warships can move and attack Axis ships and transports. US Airfleets can attack Axis ships that move within range.

5. Nordic Spy Network - The UK has established an extensive spy network in Norway and Sweden that relays information on the location of Axis units in those two countries.

[ December 11, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by John DiFool:

Just brainstorming here, but...

I recall how Totaler Krieg did things: they had

Event/Variant Cards which the players could play

at certain points.

Excellent analogy for the "random events" that I have been actively campaigning for since the very beginning.

Whether you posit these events as selected from a "deck of cards" are only located in the Computer Program's vast memory banks,

In any event, and however implemented, this would allow tremendous and VERY exciting game variations, which would in turn... require that each player be able to REACT to some little thing that goes WRONG, or RIGHT, as the case may be.

**BTW, Edwin P ... thanks for the links to those Totaler Kreig "event cards."

I haven't played that particular game; it is one of the VERY few WW2 games that I have missed out on... I wonder where I might find it? Any ideas, other than E-Bay?

Back to the EVENT topic: I am sure sore CONVINCED that introducing this sort of random action WOULD NOT interfere with ordinary, mundane, cookie-cutter, vanilla play.

It could even be a "toggle-on/off" aspect of SC2, so that those who "despise being surprised" could simply ignore it.

Yes!

Let's have a "virtual deck of cards" with all manner of interesting (... AND, strictly relevant to WW2 Ops) variations!

***(... could even be added-to and updated over the course of time, so that eventually there might be a hundred! or more of these... SC2 SERENDIPITIES!!! )

[KDG]

You can find the game here:

http://www.kumquat.com/cgi-kumquat/funagain/06709

I'd love additional random events. It would be great if its toggle option that allows you to turn them on or off.

Wouldn't matter to me whether the computer randomly choses them, or if they are part of a players strategy.

I'd love it if a good player, with some luck in random events, beats a great player occasionally.

[Desert Dave]

KDG...

Thanks much for that link.

I am with you... any time you can have the "usual" game-play changed around a bit, and ESPECIALLY when it gives the "good" player a chance to upset that (... cocky!) "great" player, why, that's the CAT's PAJAMAS! :cool:

Hubert, I IMPLORE you... please!

Include "special events"... HOWEVER you personally choose to implement them, for SC2!!!

[Edwin P.]

I wrote a small VB.Net program that demonstrates Random Events linked to game events. If anyone is interested I can send you the executable. Please be advised that you may need to download the Net Framework ( Dotnetfx.exe ) from MS to run it if you do not have it installed on your computer - which is most likely if you are running anything older than XP.

Includes linked events such as:

When Germany DOW Spain

10% Chance - "In panic with the Axis attack on Spain the government of Portgal signs mutual defense treaty with the US."

"Any attack on Portugal is a DOW on the US. Portugal is a Minor US Ally. Disbanding a US Corps in Lisbon creates a level (5) port. Lisbon Corps begins to entrench."

This event makes an Allied invasion of the Iberian peninsula possible by allowing the Allies (not the Axis) to create a port at Lisbon, deters an Axis invasion of Portugal, and forces the Axis to garrison Spain (as they must conquer Lisbon after the US enters the war else risk the US building a port at Lisbon and the allies pouring troops into an invasion of Spain). Of course, the event only occurs in 1 out of every 10 games after the Axis has DOW Spain.

[ December 12, 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[KDG]

Very nice Edwin.

Since the editor is going to be more advanced, why not make the % rates of special events adjustable. That way if I think Portugal becoming allies should be 25% after Spain is invaded instead of 10%, I can adjust it myself.

Or have a slider in options that controls how often you want special events to occur. It could be set to zero, minimal, average, frequent, & all the time.

Thus you might have a range of special events happening anywhere from 0% up to 50% of the time.

[KDG]

Now lets say Hubert, that you decide not to include random events. At a minimum we should have this instead.

Have an option to increase the range of readiness for the U.S. and Russia when neutral companies have war declared on them. If normal increase was country A 4-7% & country B 10-15% for two different neutrals, have an option to make that increase be "A" 2-12% and "B" 7-20%.

This would make the cookie cutter Axis strategy slightly different. Do you attack that last neutral, and risk bringing America in, or do you wait, etc.