I think I need to start playing the leagues...

[disorder]

ccbaxter said--

Let's try to avoid cultural stereotypes, shall we? Do all Americans eat only hamburgers?

why yes we do, thank you. at least all of those who havent latched onto the vegetarian thing. beef is #1 in the us. its what for dinner!

billions and billions served! white castle--wendys--hardees--burger king--sonic--mickey d's--ad infinitum

didnt mean to raise your hackles there, mr. ccbaxter, but i thought we were talking about cultural stereotypes, i.e. baseball/cricket types of comedy.

There is more to any country than just generally held cliches and the received wisdom of Hollywood films which tend to deal with the lowest common denominator among nations.

totally agree---

however...to assume that sometime in the 50's kidney pie dropped off the face of the uk breakfast plate is asking me to bite off a bit much at one time.high cholesterol? lack of supply? change of taste? and as for everyone in the uk being "cosmopolitan" and "enriched" by "immigrant cultures".....

i accept your assessment of the uk from your perspective, and wish you the best of luck in sc games to come!

by the way a "wonderful" kidney pie recipe is found below: http://englishculture.allinfoabout.com/recipes/steakandkid.html

[CC Baxter]

to assume that sometime in the 50's kidney pie dropped off the face of the uk breakfast plate

I think what you are trying to describe here is steak and kidney pie. It is not a breakfast dish. Bacon and eggs is a breakfast dish. Cereals, toast. All these are breakfast dishes.

and as for everyone in the uk being "cosmopolitan" and "enriched" by "immigrant cultures".....

I didn't say everyone was cosmopolitan etc. I said the food here is as varied and different as in any other western nation, except perhaps for the US, judging from your statement about burgers.

i accept your assessment of the uk from your perspective

I am British and have lived here all of my life. I think that qualifies me to make some sort of value judgment as regards the food here. You are entitled to your opinion which is formed from your perspective.

Most foreign cultures will have some food which others would find offensive/inedible. That's the nature of difference, and of ignorance.

and wish you the best of luck in sc games to come!

I don't have time to play SC, I'm too busy walking through fog, eating "kidney pie", playing cricket, and falling in love with American women at weddings!

Maybe I over-reacted to your post. Perhaps I need to practice my British reserve and stiff upper lip

I leave you with this quote as food for thought :

"Despite the alarming news that more than 60 million Americans are overweight, ultra-sizing meals or enjoying that super-rich dessert is second nature to most Americans because of the hold food has on their culture, says a Texas A&M University anthropologist. "

http://www.tamu.edu/univrel/aggiedaily/news/stories/02/082202-6.html

[JerseyJohn]

Hmmmmmm, chomping on my hamburger here; I also had them for breakfast and for dinner last night and I hope they're as good at tonight's dinner as they were at yesterday's lunch.

Are you two fighting the -- what we here inaccurately call -- the Revolutionary War, or the War of 1812?

A woman I once worked with, in an effort to impress upon those around her that she knew no history at all, exclaimed, "Believe me, I don't even know when they fought the War of 1812!"

Anyway, it would be nice if those blood puddings and hamburgers stopped being shot back and forth across the Atlantic, they're making a mess!

[ August 03, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[JerseyJohn]

Okay, I can see from the lack of responses that the two of you are not about to resolve this on your own.

You need what is called an impartial arbiter, for which I volunteer my services.

First, CCBaxter Can't you look at all this with an objective eye and even consider that perhaps disorder , living in Iowa, knows more about Britain, the British, their customs and eating habits than you do?

Second, disorder , jeez Buddy, what a fine example of British arrogance. I mean, just because the guy's lived there his entire life doesn't mean he knows more about the place than we do. No wonder we Americans gave them the boot! BTW, I followed that recipy and made some blood pudding, had some bacon and eggs with it for breakfast and smoked a dozen cigaretts with my hamburger at lunch today -- doctor says I ought to be on a higher plane by Tuesday at the latest. But getting back to the point, disorder, don't let these foreigners bulldoze you my friend, we're Americans and entitled to our opinions regardless of what they choose to call the facts.

I hope I've helped settle this. Sometimes it pays to have some neutral party sort things out.

[ August 03, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Liam]

England and the United States in certian places are inseperable. We love coffee not tea. We love sweet tasty cookies not with tea dipping cookies. We don't know what bread is, we think this white extremely spongy stuff is bread. It's not BREAD!

We Eat meat 6 times a weak they don't

90% of the goons their still don't got guns, and you can see boobs on a very light overthecounter newspaper-gazette-magazine. There isn't so much religious ferver, noone wants to try to save you. though they have lovely and even ancient Steeples. There is a lot of great T.V. here the download our T.V. now adays from the satelite and they love our movies. They're the best! They eat Fish and chips some places, you can still have a warm pint of ale. Although a towns down you can have a McD's Cheeseburger or a Pizza from Pizza Hut. They pay the equivelant<always changing> of 7 bucks for a gallon of gasoline. So I guess that's why they walk a lot more then we do. As an American never sits anywhere uncomfortable for long without starting the Engine and Idling it for temperature control. Not everyone over there has the Internet, AOL and a few other services just dropped in with a flat rate a few years back, before then you had to pay by the minute!!! At our worst we had to pay by the hour!!! a decade ago...

It's very cold and rainy, but the architecture is beautiful. The people are warm<accept for those caught up in the classes> the men are kinda skinny cause of the meat thing. Or the opposite now cause of the Mikkie D's thing... Taxes is a pain in the butt over there!!!! 36percent? Think about that before you want to move to a place with 1/10th your violent murders per capita

So we're like best buds Mother and Son What's the real difference :shrugs:

::drops jaws wants to belch:: I don't mind America, I'm uniquely American! PLEASE leave that place virgin::

[JerseyJohn]

American Culture, some Editorial Comments:

I saw some alarming statistics the other day regarding shooting deaths in the United States and other major countries around the world.

It turns out nations such as Canada, the UK and France have only a fraction of the shooting murders we’ve got here in this country.

Which leads me to wonder how, if they aren’t using a gun, are these other people doing each other in?

As we all realized, it took many of thousands of years to develop firearms and bring them to the present happy level of technical and aesthetic sophistication. Few items on earth are either as attractive or as pleasing to the touch as a vintage Remington or a good old Smith and Wesson or Colt!

Shooting, if done by a skilled and humane practitioner, is one of the quickest and least painful ways of dying. It was the mode chosen 12-0 by the Nuremberg defendants, but we were forced by our Draconian Allies to wring their necks instead. Perhaps the very epitome of civilized man, all one need do to settle a dispute is point the barrel at the other party’s head, pull the trigger once or perhaps twice out of respect, and to quote that Grand Old Lady, Ma Barker, "Blow the frigging thing right off his shoulders!" The Mafia Society refined this by waiting for the recipient to begin reading a newspaper, then plugging him from the rear. No worries, no anticipation, read the headlines over here and finish the sports page, uh, over there.

Getting back to our foreign friends. . ..

Okay, they don’t generally use guns. Which means they do what, bludgeon each other, use poison, stab their enemies, bury them alive, strangle them, burn them, throw one another off cliffs? These are all barbarous and outmoded methods.

Hell, just look at some of their terrible holidays:

In Canada, toward the end of each year they have what they call Boxing Day, during which it is okay to go out in the streets and start fist fights with people for no reason at all. If it weren’t for the many layers of protective clothing they’ve got to wear in their frigid climate, this extremely violent holiday would, no doubt, lead to many more fatalities than is presently the case. It will be a bad time for the Canadians when global warming finally kicks in.

Britain has Guy Fawkes Day, in which children celebrate the torture, slow hanging and dismemberment of an unfortunate half-wit who had the book thrown at him just because he and some friends sought to topple the government. Hell, it was his first offense!

France has Bastille Day, in which they celebrate the violent dismantling by a bored crowd of one of the greatest architectural structures in the city of Paris – with it’s occupants still living there!

Russia has May Day, which is celebrated on that day because the old Russian calendar was so far off that July 4th fell on their May 1st!

I can go on, but I’m pretty sure you’ve got the picture by now.

If this situation upsets you as much as it upsets me, then write your congressman (yeah sure, or congresswoman, okay liberals?) to support, and vote for, The Guns and Hamburger Foreign Relations Bill. Perhaps, working together, we can see to it that some poor Brit doesn’t die a slow lingering death from scattered stab wounds.

[ August 03, 2003, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[JerseyJohn]

Liam

Enjoyed your take on Britain.

Around ten years ago a writer friend moved to neighboring Ireland, partly for the tax break for artists and partly because he said, having bought a small cottage on a quiet patch of green, that the place is Heaven for writers.

Some of your reflections on Britain reminded me of his thoughts on the Irish. We've lost touch over the years, which I regret deeply.

[disorder]

jerseyjohn said --

Shooting, if done by a skilled and humane practitioner, is one of the quickest and least painful ways of dying.

there is a point JJ when even i, an overweight and myopic midwesterner, landlocked into cultural obscurity by history, has to throw down my shovel,shake the manure from my galoshes and come inside from the outhouse to comment on your postings. :cool:

you have an insight into human thoughts and practices that would be rare west of hoboken (or east of hoboken for that matter). were you oxford educated?

[JerseyJohn]

Glad you liked it -- Yes, I think it was Oxford, or perhaps Oxhead, anyway, to enter you needed to be nominated by a sheriff and recommended by a judge.

[Shaka of Carthage]

I'm not sure about the shooting or hanging bit.

My understanding about the hanging, is that its supposed to snap your neck. But the rope needs to be tied a certain way or you end up with strangulation (which is what people usually think off... feet kicking, body twisting and turning).

A bullet to the head or even in front of a firing squad would appear to be quicker, but unless you hit the right spot, its the loss of blood that is killing you. But the bullet strike itself causes enough shock that you don't really feel much.

I wonder if the person being hanged, what they think about, in that moment between the floor beneath thier feet being removed and the snap at the end of the rope?

Then again, what about the thoughts of the person once they hear the shot, feel the bullet entering thier body/head?

What about the person who dies in thier sleep? Is there a brief moment that they wake up and realize they are dying?

I guess the best one would be the one thats unexpected.

How do you guys get on subjects like this? This isn't the first time we've done this.

[JerseyJohn]

Bring on the half slaughtered animals -- I can feel it coming. Every time I go out for a brewski I end up sitting at the bar with you older guys telling your horror stories. Just like old times, the three of us, a half skinned calf running through town, an undead hog crawling along the floor and the next one of us saying, "Oh yeah, well if you think that's bad, you never heard about the time I . . .."

There's a great story by Ambrose Bierce from the Civil War called "Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge" about that magic interlude you were talking about.

I'm glad, but not surprised, to see that we ponder the same thoughts -- I've also wondered what that drop would be like, or staring at those gun muzzles.

A few years ago, during an operation I came reasonably close and in the time I was almost there.

I was at bat and swinging at a fastball that was moving in slow motion. There was the smell of freshly cut grass, people talking and laughing off in the distance, the whole mid-summer scene, except I don't remember any faces. Considering how nearly still everything was and that I was focused on a slowly rotating baseball only inches away from the fat part of my bat it isn't surprising that I wasn't looking at anything else.

Then it all vanished with a sort of very fast Whooosh! sound and I was conscious. A nurse said, "He's okay --" and I opened my eyes to see her. While moving at whatever she was doing she said, "You had a big grin on your face!" I couldn't talk but I nodded.

So, when my time comes, I hope they let me back on the field and I'm the only player in the Celestial League who sees fastballs coming in like they were going through malassas.

Okay, bring on the headless chickens, the half slaughtered livestock, the rabid squirels, this time I'm ready for you morbid old guys!

The three of us have driven the other customers away with our tales of the unnatural and the juke box is playing some of our favorites -- Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley --- -- The Green Green Grass of Home -- -- Dance Macabre . . . .

[ August 03, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[CC Baxter]

Jesus Christ what have I started here!

Thanks for being the UN Peace-keeping force Jersey John. It must be the only time they've been called in to separate Britain and America. I've been reading this forum for nearly a year and only recently started to post. Out of all the 'characters' on the forum you're my favourite Jersey. Always ready with a quick post and a sharp mind, pouring oil on troubled waters and dousing the flames of anger (I think I'm mixing metaphors here ) You should have you're own column, or in forum terms, a sticky in which you free to wax lyrical about the world, and the human condition.

I think Disorder and I have aired our opinions on food and when it comes down to it, it really is only food. Who cares? Our nations have so much in common, what the hell are a few "kidney pies" between friends?

[JerseyJohn]

Thanks CC, it's much appreciated. I'm glad you've begun posting, you're a great addition. A lot of guys have said they dropped in and read for a long time before they began writing things. I guess it's one way of getting used to the place; in the long run whatever gets the Threads flowing is worth waiting for.

One of the things I enjoy here is the wide range of cultures that mix -- Russian, Scandinavian, German, French, Italian, British, American and those Canadians who usually don't like to be lumped together with their southern neighbors, along with voices from the rest of the world.

I enjoyed that whole series about rounders and cricket and foods -- I'm sure we have what would seem like a lot strange tastes in the U. S. -- and I'm hoping we'll be seeing a lot more of those things in your future postings.

[ August 03, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[CC Baxter]

Cheers Jersey.

I had better start playing SC more and reading these forums less so as to have something to post about

[disorder]

as a former meat-cutter, it just bugs the amoebas out of me when someone professes a liking for "inedible" meat.

inedible is a federal inspector term referring to "discarded" or things humans shouldn't eat!

kidneys (urine producing organs) easily falls into this category. as does blood (see PUDDING post above)

VASTLY SWINGING SEGUE--

loved owl bridge. my favorite. saw a short of it on ispn last year. reading it is better though. bierce gets into the parts of the guys mind that are MAKING UP things that could be happening, and the reader is kept in the dark to the end, as in all his short stories.

bierce supposedly died in mexico in 1917? according to his entry in an encyclopedia. most sources say, he just commited suicide, but i think theres more there for the avid fan to find!

in 1995 i was in a near-fatal car wreck during a MIDWEST blizzard. i was life flighted to des moines, and for the first 4 days remember only snatches of stuff, most of it pretty strange...

i.e.

i woke up laying on a cold metal table. what woke me up was the familiar smell of hot bone dust(as i said, i was a butcher, and used a table saw for cutting beef bones a lot). i raised my head up and looked down toward the foot of the table, and 2 men were down there, one had my left leg extended in the air upwards, and the other had a black and decker (saw the brand name)power drill of largish size, and had just stopped drilling on my leg, right above the knee(you could still smell the bone dust). they were surprised i was awake :eek: , and i was evidently doped up enough not to feel any pain.

they were putting a rod in my leg so i could be put in traction, and that was apparently how you do that sort of thing. one said to the other "quick go get SO AND SO...(sorry dont remember his name.) there was a brief few awkward minutes, with my leg extended toward the ceiling, and the bit halfway through my leg, and the man holding the power drill..... then the guy came in and put me out.

[JerseyJohn]

Whewww !!!! That beats anything I've got!

The closest was a doctor sticking a large syringe into my right shinbone in '77 and telling me it wouldn't hurt. The third time I became a little annoyed and said, "Please Doc, tell me anything else, but not that!" Eventually they saved the leg though it's never been the same since. At the time it was swelled to twice it's normal size from the knee down and I was fantasizing about having a meat cleaver to chop it off when nobody was watching. A few years ago part of the troublesome shin area was removed. The main operation was for something else and my wife gave her consent for the shin part of it while I was unconscious. Later she said she thought she gave permission for a lobotomy.

There are a lot of different versions of how old Ambrose Bierce met his demise, most involving his friend Poncho Villa. All the ones I've heard are pretty interesting.

On the story, there are at least two TV-film versions of "Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge," both aired on one hour shows during the mid-sixties. The first was a French production which won an award at Cannes and old Alfred was pretty impressed with it because he gave a straight intro. A great short film. The second aired on the "Twilight Zone" and was enjoyable enough but not as good as the French version. The two shows, which shot a lot of 30 min episodes, were both an hour at that time.

But you're right, anyone who reads the story never forgets it.

A close second, for me anyway, is another old classic, "Silent Snow, Secret Snow." I won't talk about either story as they'd be ruined for anyone who might want to read them, but they both leave you with chills; "snow" in a quiet, eerie way that lingers ever after. I don't recall "...Snow's" author (Conrad Aiken?), but it's in almost every Best American Short Story anthology.

Getting back to the start of your entry, I'm glad you didn't enlighten us on the no such thing as inedible meat subject! I'm sure you're giving us good info, but sometimes the best details are those that are omitted.

[ August 04, 2003, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[CC Baxter]

DISORDER SAID:

as a former meat-cutter, it just bugs the amoebas out of me when someone professes a liking for "inedible" meat.

inedible is a federal inspector term referring to "discarded" or things humans shouldn't eat!

kidneys (urine producing organs) easily falls into this category. as does blood (see PUDDING post above)

, an overweight and myopic midwesterner, landlocked into cultural obscurity by history

Stick to the burgers chubby.

[JerseyJohn]

Just when we thought it was safe to go outside again . . .

[CC Baxter]

Just when we thought it was safe to go outside again

As far as I was concerned the "discussion" was ended but Disorder broke the cease-fire Jersey! Please initiate diplomatic moves to begin sanctions against Disorder. I think we are going to need another peace-keeping force.

[ August 06, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: CC Baxter ]

[CC Baxter]

Just when we thought it was safe to go outside again

As far as I was concerned the "discussion" was end but Disorder broke the cease-fire Jersey! Please initiate diplomatic moves to begin sanctions against Disorder. I think we are going to need another peace-keeping force.

[JerseyJohn]

Well, CC, let's be fair about this. I'll have to side with you the first time you posted and with disorder on the double post!

Final Score: CCBaxter 1, disorder 1.

What a dilemma! :eek:

[CC Baxter]

LOL.

[JerseyJohn]

And now, in the spirt of international jurispudence, we await the chubby hamburger eating -- uh, -- we await disorder's reply to all of this.

[Kuniworth]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH...

muggabrugga biflebrer whats going on here? Hamburgers??? raahhhh arrrgh

[JerseyJohn]

Oh No !!!! It's the Burger Monster !!!!! :eek: :eek:

[ August 06, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]