(HUBERT PLEASE READ) Winter war in SC

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

I cant stress this enuff, we need to have the winter war to be playable in sc! An exclusion of this would cut down on the 'replayability' and 'fun' levels of the game. It adds more depth and options to the campaigns. Please, antone, i'd love to hear you rpost regarding this looming tradgedy.

[pzgndr]

No weather effects in SC. Period.

The variable turn length abstraction is supposed to account for weather. Units get less done in winter than in summer. OK, fine, that's the game design decision for SC and not likely to change.

Personally, I don't see any problem with 26 2-week turns or 24 1/2 month turns versus the current 27 turns-per-year. Give us a consistent economic system and some basic weather effects and you upgrade SC a notch or two on the realism scale. Playability would be essentially the same. It would still be fun for those who like the current system, while providing some more historical accuracy for those who want it. Sounds OK, but the game code would have to be revised to make it happen, so SC will probably not change at this point. Maybe for SC2 later, hopefully. Please.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Just becuz it was called the winter war doesnt mean that you need to add weather effects to the game, i agree the turn length is enough. But still this conflict needs to be added into the game.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

So you can all see what im talking about.

Winter war

[husky65]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

I cant stress this enuff, we need to have the winter war to be playable in sc! An exclusion of this would cut down on the 'replayability' and 'fun' levels of the game. It adds more depth and options to the campaigns. Please, antone, i'd love to hear you rpost regarding this looming tradgedy.

Personally, I don't care if its in or not.

[dasreich]

From Mannerheim:

I cant stress this enuff, we need to have the winter war to be playable in sc! An exclusion of this would cut down on the 'replayability' and 'fun' levels of the game. It adds more depth and options to the campaigns. Please, antone, i'd love to hear you rpost regarding this looming tradgedy.

A little emotional, aren't we

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

You all need to see why im so in to this

www.winterwar.com

[ June 30, 2002, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Carl Von Mannerheim ]

[husky65]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

You all need to see why im so in to this

www.winterwar.com

You don't get it - I know all about the winter war, I just don't care if its in or out - it will add about as much to the game as adding the Kokoda Trail battles.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Well, itll obviously add more htan the "kokada trail battles" since at least the winter war was in europe! Not the owen stanley mountain range of new guinea! I understand that yuo dont care, the url wasnt adressed just for you, it was for everybody, sorry for the misunderstanding

[husky65]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

Well, itll obviously add more htan the "kokada trail battles" since at least the winter war was in europe! Not the owen stanley mountain range of new guinea! I understand that yuo dont care, the url wasnt adressed just for you, it was for everybody, sorry for the misunderstanding

Yes, but you haven't told us what you think it will add to the game, at the scale of SC there will be little or no movement, just a steady stream of broken Soviet units.

Doesn't sound to me like it adds much play value.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Thank you for showing me my fault. Let me explain. The inclusion of this conflict could add many more options to the game. For instance: If russia could take finland in 1939, that would probably deterr the german player from invading Norway, or even if he did, that would surely expand the depth of the eastern front! You see, mant people, when looking at the map see only 2 fronts, the eastern front, and western front, some more experienced players would aslo see a southern front developing, but very few people see the possbility of a northern front. This, if exploited by the allies, would provide an early linkup between russian and uk/us forces. Giving a safe disembarkation point for the allies to attack in mainland europe. I could go on for hours, but theres a start.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

i would be willing to sacafice my original point of finland not being axis as it would make the inclusion of this conflict possible given the game engine.

[husky65]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

"Thank you for showing me my fault. Let me explain. The inclusion of this conflict could add many more options to the game. For instance: If russia could take finland in 1939, that would probably deterr the german player from invading Norway"

How?

" or even if he did, that would surely expand the depth of the eastern front!"

Again How? Look at the scale of the map and consider what the Winter war actually adds to the game - almost nothing.

" This, if exploited by the allies, would provide an early linkup between russian and uk/us forces. Giving a safe disembarkation point for the allies to attack in mainland europe. I could go on for hours, but theres a start. "

Hardly, do some reading on the Murmansk convoys -IRL the idea of running troopships up there doesn't bear thinking about, let alone the amount of supplies the troops would need to support US/UK forces in the USSR.

But how would you do it with the existing map? or do you suggest that we wait extra 2 months while they redo the map before SC releases so you can have the winter war?

I doubt that idea will get much support.

You also have to ask if the Russians would welcome them, historically they did not welcome their allies visiting.

[Sgt. Recon]

I think it better if you bought a game only covering the Finnish campaign. I'm getting sick of Finland.

[Turska]

SC Is too big in scale to implement the Finns well. As Finnish army was small 300.000 - 500.000 men and that 500.000 was only in attack phase 1941 and otherwise it was only 300k - 400k to keep industry rolling. Finnish population at the time was only ~3 500 000.

As the battle fields were pretty much always dense forests so it was impossible to use big formations what are needed in grand strategic level games.

Adding more Finns to the game would twist the history a lot.

Finnish strugle would be great tactical game though. Scale something like what is used in Panzer Campaigns.