Naval warfare

[Agamemnon]

Hide the Italian navy until France is knocked out of the war. Don't engage French ships that are not going the around long. Try to do as much damage as you can with the German subs in the Atlantic. You are not going to do tons of damage but I have gotten lucky and took down a BB. Not much can be done with the Baltic fleet. Just try to be opportunistic and pick your fights.

[Avatar]

Once you've lost half the RN, it's almost game over against an experienced Axis player. Italian navy plus german subs will make Sealion a sure thing. Keep your navy together as often as possible, they are much stronger that way.

The central and eastern med are hopeless to defend, so withdraw the RN from egypt ASAP. Just after France falls, there's a large chance that the Axis will invade Vichy. Put a fleet around Gibraltar. They should have high supply leftover from the western ports of france, and can wreak any italian adventure that strays too far west. Watchout for the LW in Sicily, they'll make you pay in Carrier chits and BB's, so be cautious in this area!

Other than that, your RN should be patrolling the Atlantic for subs and such, and make sure that the route is free once the US comes in. Since 90% of all Axis players attack Spain, you probably won't be able to re-enter the med later on. Use your fleet wisely after this. Often, Axis air (+ bombers) wait off the coast of france for a chance to blow away your ships. Don't let that happen. Be patient, and wait for DDAY. Even with the Italian fleet at bordeaux (or brest), your (mostly intact hopefully) RN+USN should be able to block the naval attacks against your transports. Think of it as an All-or-nothing scenario.

[Avatar]

Once you've lost half the RN, it's almost game over against an experienced Axis player. Italian navy plus german subs will make Sealion a sure thing. Keep your navy together as often as possible, they are much stronger that way.

The central and eastern med are hopeless to defend, so withdraw the RN from egypt ASAP. Just after France falls, there's a large chance that the Axis will invade Vichy. Put a fleet around Gibraltar. They should have high supply leftover from the western ports of france, and can wreak any italian adventure that strays too far west. Watchout for the LW in Sicily, they'll make you pay in Carrier chits and BB's, so be cautious in this area!

Other than that, your RN should be patrolling the Atlantic for subs and such, and make sure that the route is free once the US comes in. Since 90% of all Axis players attack Spain, you probably won't be able to re-enter the med later on. Use your fleet wisely after this. Often, Axis air (+ bombers) wait off the coast of france for a chance to blow away your ships. Don't let that happen. Be patient, and wait for DDAY. Even with the Italian fleet at bordeaux (or brest), your (mostly intact hopefully) RN+USN should be able to block the naval attacks against your transports. Think of it as an All-or-nothing scenario.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Agamemnon:

Hide the Italian navy until France is knocked out of the war.

I disagree. On the contrary move quickly in the med.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Agamemnon:

Hide the Italian navy until France is knocked out of the war.

I disagree. On the contrary move quickly in the med.

[Curry]

KUNI -

If royal navy stays in the Med that means the brits will most likely have done a big mistake. They can surprise you if you go for Vichy France but else you will have no trouble if you support with air.

Kuni I agree strongly. Is there any good players that keep their British Med Naval task force in the med still? Rambo or Terif would you ever keep your British Naval task force in the Med??? Dont understand why some players do. Its certain death for so little gain if any and the supply is so poor for the Brits.

[Curry]

KUNI -

If royal navy stays in the Med that means the brits will most likely have done a big mistake. They can surprise you if you go for Vichy France but else you will have no trouble if you support with air.

Kuni I agree strongly. Is there any good players that keep their British Med Naval task force in the med still? Rambo or Terif would you ever keep your British Naval task force in the Med??? Dont understand why some players do. Its certain death for so little gain if any and the supply is so poor for the Brits.

[Edwin P.]

Not if you can surprise your opponent, ie he thinks your fleet is in the Atlantic based on many games of experience.

[Edwin P.]

Not if you can surprise your opponent, ie he thinks your fleet is in the Atlantic based on many games of experience.

[Kuniworth]

Thing is,

many people cash in the french units early. If they not do it - a surprise on the italian fleet is still difficult as axis almost certain will bring down airfleets and retaliate.

On the other hand defending Egypt is a doomed tactic. RN needs to save the ships for d-day or surprise axis outside algiers.

Sure it is possible however to ambush the italians at Malta etc. But I've noticed that often allied supply-levels are low making ships take more damage than the italians.

[Kuniworth]

Thing is,

many people cash in the french units early. If they not do it - a surprise on the italian fleet is still difficult as axis almost certain will bring down airfleets and retaliate.

On the other hand defending Egypt is a doomed tactic. RN needs to save the ships for d-day or surprise axis outside algiers.

Sure it is possible however to ambush the italians at Malta etc. But I've noticed that often allied supply-levels are low making ships take more damage than the italians.

[willebra]

I have often been pulling my med-fleet (plus Valiant at Gibraltar) around the port of Marseilles to gain a high level of supply.

From there the fleet can either retreat from the Med or be moved around Malta depending on how the game develops.

If the fleets arrival to Malta is timed to conincide with the Italian entry, the med-fleet is in a position to cripple the Italian fleet (the cruiser could be placed east of Malta to observe possible 1st turn movements of the Italians).

Is it worth it? Don't know, but if the Italian fleet is seriously crippled, the RN will control the med at least for some time. Axis operations against Spain and southern Vichy, Greece, Eqypt, possibly Iraq will become more difficult and time consuming.

If RN-withdrawal can be postponed and the Allies succeed in taking Iraq (+ Russia enters), the Axis would need considerable effort to retake the Med (and this is always away from somewhere else).

I'll be glad to hear the counter-move...

[willebra]

I have often been pulling my med-fleet (plus Valiant at Gibraltar) around the port of Marseilles to gain a high level of supply.

From there the fleet can either retreat from the Med or be moved around Malta depending on how the game develops.

If the fleets arrival to Malta is timed to conincide with the Italian entry, the med-fleet is in a position to cripple the Italian fleet (the cruiser could be placed east of Malta to observe possible 1st turn movements of the Italians).

Is it worth it? Don't know, but if the Italian fleet is seriously crippled, the RN will control the med at least for some time. Axis operations against Spain and southern Vichy, Greece, Eqypt, possibly Iraq will become more difficult and time consuming.

If RN-withdrawal can be postponed and the Allies succeed in taking Iraq (+ Russia enters), the Axis would need considerable effort to retake the Med (and this is always away from somewhere else).

I'll be glad to hear the counter-move...

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by willebra:

If the fleets arrival to Malta is timed to conincide with the Italian entry, the med-fleet is in a position to cripple the Italian fleet (the cruiser could be placed east of Malta to observe possible 1st turn movements of the Italians).

Is it worth it? Don't know, but if the Italian fleet is seriously crippled, the RN will control the med at least for some time. Axis operations against Spain and southern Vichy, Greece, Eqypt, possibly Iraq will become more difficult and time consuming.

If RN-withdrawal can be postponed and the Allies succeed in taking Iraq (+ Russia enters), the Axis would need considerable effort to retake the Med (and this is always away from somewhere else).

I'll be glad to hear the counter-move...

The counter-move is simple, capture France. If France falls early this delay in the Med does'nt matter. Priority 1 is slowing the axis in the west, this most often means buying a french hq and units early so they can entrench eg french Med fleet is disbanded for cash most of the time.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by willebra:

If the fleets arrival to Malta is timed to conincide with the Italian entry, the med-fleet is in a position to cripple the Italian fleet (the cruiser could be placed east of Malta to observe possible 1st turn movements of the Italians).

Is it worth it? Don't know, but if the Italian fleet is seriously crippled, the RN will control the med at least for some time. Axis operations against Spain and southern Vichy, Greece, Eqypt, possibly Iraq will become more difficult and time consuming.

If RN-withdrawal can be postponed and the Allies succeed in taking Iraq (+ Russia enters), the Axis would need considerable effort to retake the Med (and this is always away from somewhere else).

I'll be glad to hear the counter-move...

The counter-move is simple, capture France. If France falls early this delay in the Med does'nt matter. Priority 1 is slowing the axis in the west, this most often means buying a french hq and units early so they can entrench eg french Med fleet is disbanded for cash most of the time.

[willebra]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

The counter-move is simple, capture France. If France falls early this delay in the Med does'nt matter. Priority 1 is slowing the axis in the west, this most often means buying a french hq and units early so they can entrench eg french Med fleet is disbanded for cash most of the time.

If France falls early, then it would become very risky to attack Italians and thus delay in the Med. But if France falls after the RN has kicked some Italian butt, the delay in the Med would still seem to yield some benefit. Axis operations around the Med would be difficult wihtout shifting AFs to the theater. The cost on operating units plus that these can't be used elsewhere certainly benefits the Allied.

Also, if the Italians do not have air support, the RN alone (even if the French BBs are disbanded) can give some punishment for the Italians on the first turn after their entry. Sometimes I've also placed a corpse-transport as a bait west of Bari to wait for the Italian entry.

[willebra]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

The counter-move is simple, capture France. If France falls early this delay in the Med does'nt matter. Priority 1 is slowing the axis in the west, this most often means buying a french hq and units early so they can entrench eg french Med fleet is disbanded for cash most of the time.

If France falls early, then it would become very risky to attack Italians and thus delay in the Med. But if France falls after the RN has kicked some Italian butt, the delay in the Med would still seem to yield some benefit. Axis operations around the Med would be difficult wihtout shifting AFs to the theater. The cost on operating units plus that these can't be used elsewhere certainly benefits the Allied.

Also, if the Italians do not have air support, the RN alone (even if the French BBs are disbanded) can give some punishment for the Italians on the first turn after their entry. Sometimes I've also placed a corpse-transport as a bait west of Bari to wait for the Italian entry.

[Leopard]

First turn attacks on the Italian fleet can be turned into Allied disaster by a good Axis naval plan. Operating a German bomber and 1-2 airfleets to Sicily and Tobruk, and an HQ to Sicily will give the Axis Med recon and ranged conter-attacks on I+1. I will do this even if France is still fighting, because of the future benefits of the winning the Med naval battles.

I will often disband the corps in Venice, use the MPP to send out the Tirana and Palermo corps in transports to surprise any retreating Allied ships, and identify their location-transports can bottle up naval units quickly with their range. Replace the missing Italian corps with operated German corps for I+1 amphib coverage and also to provide more potential transports if needed.

This just isn't the right battle for the UK fleet to fight-I have seen them lose as many as 6 capital ships and 1-2 carriers in these battles, and they can't afford this loss of naval power in 1940 for a stretch of empty ocean. The UK fleets first priority is keeping SeaLion in check and protecting the North Atlantic for the USA.

Heavy Allied naval losses dooms their ability to team up with the USA in several 1942-1945 potential plans for DDay, and leaves the USA isolated if well managed by the Axis commander.

[Leopard]

First turn attacks on the Italian fleet can be turned into Allied disaster by a good Axis naval plan. Operating a German bomber and 1-2 airfleets to Sicily and Tobruk, and an HQ to Sicily will give the Axis Med recon and ranged conter-attacks on I+1. I will do this even if France is still fighting, because of the future benefits of the winning the Med naval battles.

I will often disband the corps in Venice, use the MPP to send out the Tirana and Palermo corps in transports to surprise any retreating Allied ships, and identify their location-transports can bottle up naval units quickly with their range. Replace the missing Italian corps with operated German corps for I+1 amphib coverage and also to provide more potential transports if needed.

This just isn't the right battle for the UK fleet to fight-I have seen them lose as many as 6 capital ships and 1-2 carriers in these battles, and they can't afford this loss of naval power in 1940 for a stretch of empty ocean. The UK fleets first priority is keeping SeaLion in check and protecting the North Atlantic for the USA.

Heavy Allied naval losses dooms their ability to team up with the USA in several 1942-1945 potential plans for DDay, and leaves the USA isolated if well managed by the Axis commander.

[Edwin P.]

I agree that heavy allied naval losses will doom an allied player.

At the sametime, destroying the Italian fleet before France surrenders is a big plus. The key is that the Allied player has to be willing to call off his attack on the Italians if Paris falls to soon. Too often they carry on with the attack after France falls and find themselves trying to run past Axis Air Units operated to Sicily.

[Edwin P.]

I agree that heavy allied naval losses will doom an allied player.

At the sametime, destroying the Italian fleet before France surrenders is a big plus. The key is that the Allied player has to be willing to call off his attack on the Italians if Paris falls to soon. Too often they carry on with the attack after France falls and find themselves trying to run past Axis Air Units operated to Sicily.