Leopard

Hey SeaMonkey, If you could shoot a copy up to Dallas, I would love to try it. Though most of my gaming time is now spent playing Strat-O-Matic football, running a 1964 AFL-NFL keepers league, I still play Strategic Command PBEM and anxiously await SCII. Thanks, leopard138@comcast.net

First turn attacks on the Italian fleet can be turned into Allied disaster by a good Axis naval plan. Operating a German bomber and 1-2 airfleets to Sicily and Tobruk, and an HQ to Sicily will give the Axis Med recon and ranged conter-attacks on I+1. I will do this even if France is still fighting, because of the future benefits of the winning the Med naval battles. I will often disband the corps in Venice, use the MPP to send out the Tirana and Palermo corps in transports to surprise any retreating Allied ships, and identify their location-transports can bottle up naval units quickly with their range. Replace the missing Italian corps with operated German corps for I+1 amphib coverage and also to provide more potential transports if needed. This just isn't the right battle for the UK fleet to fight-I have seen them lose as many as 6 capital ships and 1-2 carriers in these battles, and they can't afford this loss of naval power in 1940 for a stretch of empty ocean. The UK fleets first priority is keeping SeaLion in check and protecting the North Atlantic for the USA. Heavy Allied naval losses dooms their ability to team up with the USA in several 1942-1945 potential plans for DDay, and leaves the USA isolated if well managed by the Axis commander.

First turn attacks on the Italian fleet can be turned into Allied disaster by a good Axis naval plan. Operating a German bomber and 1-2 airfleets to Sicily and Tobruk, and an HQ to Sicily will give the Axis Med recon and ranged conter-attacks on I+1. I will do this even if France is still fighting, because of the future benefits of the winning the Med naval battles. I will often disband the corps in Venice, use the MPP to send out the Tirana and Palermo corps in transports to surprise any retreating Allied ships, and identify their location-transports can bottle up naval units quickly with their range. Replace the missing Italian corps with operated German corps for I+1 amphib coverage and also to provide more potential transports if needed. This just isn't the right battle for the UK fleet to fight-I have seen them lose as many as 6 capital ships and 1-2 carriers in these battles, and they can't afford this loss of naval power in 1940 for a stretch of empty ocean. The UK fleets first priority is keeping SeaLion in check and protecting the North Atlantic for the USA. Heavy Allied naval losses dooms their ability to team up with the USA in several 1942-1945 potential plans for DDay, and leaves the USA isolated if well managed by the Axis commander.

I think the Axis navy is critical to the USA phase of the war. I invest early in Gun Laying Radar for Italy, and grab experience if the Allies leave a corps in Malta. Operate some German air and an HQ to Southern Italy for spotting and supplimental attacks, then move them to Africa (if Med fleet doesn't attack when Italy enters) for a decisive Med naval battle near Alexandria. The Allies often cannot risk a Sea Lion, and won't send a large portion of the Royal Navy to the Med. Buy corps for Italy, and keep some transports at sea as scouts on both ends of the Med. Losing 137 (125+12) for a corps is nothing compared to being blind near Gibralter, or having the Italian fleet ambushed. Breakout into the Atlantic with the Italian Fleet before the USA reaches 90 % readiness, and add a German sub or two, and some transports to add a perimeter warning system to your Italian fleet. Don't get within air attack range of the UK if they own the airspace, but instead ambush USA attempts to bring reinforcements across the Atlantic to the UK or for DDay, Spain/Portugal protection. I believe the Italian navy is their main contribution, and it can save you a lot of firepower by allowing Germany to keep more air and ground units including HQ's on the critcial Eastern Front. I feel lots of games are determined by the strength of the Axis navy from 1943 on in the Central Atlantic, and the ease or difficulty of the USA crossing the Atlantic to join the battle.

I think the Axis navy is critical to the USA phase of the war. I invest early in Gun Laying Radar for Italy, and grab experience if the Allies leave a corps in Malta. Operate some German air and an HQ to Southern Italy for spotting and supplimental attacks, then move them to Africa (if Med fleet doesn't attack when Italy enters) for a decisive Med naval battle near Alexandria. The Allies often cannot risk a Sea Lion, and won't send a large portion of the Royal Navy to the Med. Buy corps for Italy, and keep some transports at sea as scouts on both ends of the Med. Losing 137 (125+12) for a corps is nothing compared to being blind near Gibralter, or having the Italian fleet ambushed. Breakout into the Atlantic with the Italian Fleet before the USA reaches 90 % readiness, and add a German sub or two, and some transports to add a perimeter warning system to your Italian fleet. Don't get within air attack range of the UK if they own the airspace, but instead ambush USA attempts to bring reinforcements across the Atlantic to the UK or for DDay, Spain/Portugal protection. I believe the Italian navy is their main contribution, and it can save you a lot of firepower by allowing Germany to keep more air and ground units including HQ's on the critcial Eastern Front. I feel lots of games are determined by the strength of the Axis navy from 1943 on in the Central Atlantic, and the ease or difficulty of the USA crossing the Atlantic to join the battle.

I usually move the 105mm Zeus to an adjacent southern building top floor, and he seems to have a very good LOS with little exposure to the kill zones along the south-central area. I typically move the sniper into the southern hills so he can try to button up or slow some of the approaching armor. I am not sure he ever hits anyone, but I usually get a few tanks zipped up, almost always the lead 38t. I split my mortars North and South in most games, and the northern one usually attacks the central hills. I like keeping a Sherman and the TD hunting forward towards the East, (S of Central Hill) then reversing back, on the road to the edge of the tree breaks S of Central Hill once the German armor has began to get occupied with other targets. After 2 bogged vehicles in my first game, I tend to use the road for this yo-yo-ing. My other Sherman (Northeast of the village) I also keep mainly on the pavement, and I tend to use to get some MG's forward and save their legs on Turns 1-2, with infantry eventually setting up ahead of them. I use a lot of scouts in the North, as there seems to be enough cover for catastrophic sneak attacks from the Germans in that section. Though I doubt they would be able to bring a lot of firepower in the North, I could see Germany overwhelming my forces with numbers and several different attack positions, which I would eventually have no firepower except perhaps a hilltop MG which could put up reasonable suppressive fire there, if attacked from the north and west of the Northern Hill. While the village itself isn't likely to be overrun in 20 turns, the Northern Hill seems vital to control outright since the Central Hill is conceded, or the fight is probably lost. I always ford the river in the south with all the southernmost units, as I cannot see a quicker or better covered route to the south hills defensive positions. I think my Northern deployment needs to be revised, while it has been quick and seemed solid before, now that I am ready to play as Germany and have reviewed it in more detail from Germanys viewpoint, I see a big potential exploit of my deployment there that needs to be fixed. I won't be playing this as Allies again in CMBO, or I wouldn't describe it as much, but I really am beginning to like this game a lot, and want to learn more about my mistakes in planning, deployment or tactics. Thats why I have replayed the same scenario and side a few times. [ June 08, 2004, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Leopard ]

Thanks. You make good points, and I have read and tried to apply many of your tactics I have read here. I understand more each game about fighting withdrawls and finding defensive positions of value during the withdrwal, but at least I did realise how hopeless an organised, effective retreat from the Central Hills is once my anti-tank defenses are smashed. I don't like having that many casualties and such high attrition each way, but I couldn't see retreating with guys highly prone to break or unlikely to find a position of value thru retreat. I wanted to make my losses worth as much time as possible at that point. My favorite fire areas as US are the Southern Hills, which have great variety of cover and elevation allowing several different LOS positions with decent cover towards the Central Hills, and they can be protected pretty well from the German armor from the village if positioned on the north-west side of the Southern Hill. But the the game my armor and forward anti-tank teams were over-run, I lost a great deal of my covering fire advantages from the Southern Hills onto the central ones. My biggest concern with not contesting the Central Hill would be that the Stug's and the Panther would just back into the nice cover against the Central hills facing south, set up their arty, and would provide supporting fire for their infantry to advance on my positions very early, in turn 7-10 probably, which my forces would have difficulty providing counters against. They would also be able to get into great ambush positions for their anti-tank teams on the Cenrtal Hills for when I did try and deploy my armor. Again, I am still new and probably missing several things, but think I have began to get an appreciation for terrain more by replaying the same map than playing a new one each game. Thanks for the tips!

I have been sending full platoons to the North and South hills. I have used a split squad doing the south woods loop for recon, and once in a fortunate supressive firefight they engaging a LMG and 2 Pioneer squads for 5 turns, which is forever in a 20 turn battle as a defender. Bought em a case of beer for that one. I had always held all 3 objective hills, though the Central one is only 2-3 turns away from complete collapse until the most recent game in which I lost the Central Hill late and the game ended in a draw, as it should have (he had a very good game with his amror). I have been setting up 2 of my 4 MG's on the Central Hill proper, with the others in supporting positions on the other hills. I keep them in a position that his armor must expose itself to my ATG, A10 Tank Destroyer, and one Sherman to get in position to threaten my MG's. I decided to pick a single map and try and play it a few times to improve my positioning, and Wiltz is a great map which never replays the same it seems. I have played it twice vs AI also, and am about to give it a go as the Germans for the 1st time. Got to use those APC's IMO to get infantry into defensible positions before the US can set up their fields of fire.

I am still a green CM player, but have played CMBO for about 6 months now and CMAK for a month, and have read most all of the great posts in this Forum section. I improve some each game, and come across tactics here for most every question I have. One I have not seen as much about is the fight or flight decisions. Defending Wiltz (CMBO) for the 4th straight game, using extremely forward defenses while retaining depth, but without full flank coverage (he who defends everything defends nothing), I have become accustomed to positions being overrun. Though I have won all 3, almost every game a position will get overrun around the central hills once my anti-tank teams are spent, and the surviving German armor concentrates its firepower on my infantry on the central hill nearest the village, and on the southern hill. I am finding that in these situations, with spotty cover behind me to aid retreat, that maintaining my positions to the bitter end on the central hill works better than withdrawl, when a smooth withdrawl to a new fire position is unlikely. With only 20 turns to defend, once I have lost my forward infantry and anti-tank teams, I have usually committed armor to counter the German armor from rampaging against the Southern Hill where my supporting MG fire comes from, and the Central Hills where I am dug in. But these eventually get outnumbered or out-armored (damn Panther is tough to KO in this set-up!). This leaves the Germans with more firepower and much more mobile firepower. The Southern Hill is the only area I can get reasonable LOS to the German attack routes on the central hills. Usually a no mans land develops betweeen the 3 flags, as well as between the 2 central hills. Once the German armor has cleared my anti-tank teams, all my defensive positions seem vulnerable except the Northern ones. But the delaying action of using MG's in my 2nd defensive layer from the front instead of my 3rd or 4th has seemed to work out better. The machine guns allow me to pin infantry for my arty, and the arty can give me time to re-position as teh battle evolves. But if MG's or anti-tank teams are running low on ammo or are in a difficult withdrawl, IMO it seems better to use them to cover infantry withdrawl, even if they are lost, rather than spend 2-4 turns with them not firing while re-postioning for a potential use later if they survive the move and then find a suitable target. I am basically giving them up for time in delaying, but it doesn't seem worth moving them when there isn't a 2/3 chance or better they will be able to fire again if I do move them. Veterans comments on this would be appreciated. [ June 04, 2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Leopard ]

Michael Dorosh, Why not a "Why not WWII North Atlantic" thread? Naval combat has never found the right developer to simulate it right. I would bet that this is the little company that could.

I'll definitly offer to playtest, and have experience as a beta tester for a recent wargame (NDA still respected).

I prefer to see France fight after the fall of Paris. I think there could be chance that French troops would refuse to go to the UK (like the naval Free French %'s) and fight on would work better than the mass evacuation used too often now, or the quick surrender of France. Also, perhaps having surrender chances for units which have lost their Capitol recently, have poor/no HQ support and are strength 3 or less would simulate morale drop after their capitol has capitulated.

I think this is realistic-considering Iwo Jima, Henderson, and the improvised Pacific theatre airfields built under the most difficult circumstances. I think all terrain can be made to support a single airfleet or bomber base. The determining factor should be- Can this 50 mile terrain support an air group of sufficient size to influence battles on the scale of SC2? I believe the answer is yes when looking at the impact of firepower supplied by aircraft in the Pacific theatre island battles, Coral Sea, Midway, the Battle of the Bulge. The air bases were not large in some of these, but controlling those land tiles allowed aircraft to be based which influenced the battles. D-Day, the Allied advances in Europe, and the German invasions of Poland, Belgium, Holland, France, and the USSR shows airpower on a grand scale, but decisive air power can come from small bases.

I haven't posted here much lately during my sports gaming season, but am excited about SC2. Just a quick point on the tiles vs hexes argument. I had looked at this also while working on a war game many years ago, and feel there is a lot of merit to a tile based system. Hubert has shown a great understanding of strategic war games with SC. Despite imperfections, SC is the best game of its type. I had planned on reducing attacks which come from a diagonal compared to a full facing tile unless both adjacent tiles were controlled by the attacker. I also planned on having a movement penalty through diagonals if the 4 adjacent tiles were not controlled by that country, the penalty greater for each tile not controlled. I also would reccomend placing movement bonus tiles (which can be damaged) to simulate roads and railway systems. These could extend the movement range if these roads/railways are intact, and adds strategic value to tiles away from the front. There are so many of the ideas we presented in this forum mentioned for SC2-it is such a nice feeling to think the game designers are listening and using the suggestions offered by their customers. What a concept! WWII Online would prefer to have no sales and a poor game than to listen to its customers, and failed majestically where others have succeeded. Thanks BF and Hubert. The tile system can work if well designed, and I have faith Hubert will do it right again.

The different factors modelled, and ALL the levers and switches makes this really fantastic news. Shouldn't they warn us that we are going need a towel before posting news like this?

Excellent news, can't wait for the game.

I would love to see CM make a naval warfare game for WWII. With convoys of corvettes, destroyers, and merchant ships vs the U-boats and reconaissance planes (Seeaufklärungsgruppen), the German BB vs the Royal navy, the Pacific battles of Coral Sea, Midway, Guadalcanal. I can imagine the great sounds CM would use for naval guns. Naval warfare has never been tackled by a talented design team like Combat Mission has. If not, I would like to see a Pacific theatre CM.

I ordered CMAK 4 days ago after the demo kept me sleepless wanting it. I have active games in CMBO, but can't wait for the new one. Anyway, I have used your Excel charts Chris and really appreciate them. I already have the CMAK version (and the game patch) if the postman would just deliver my freaking CD...The charts help a lot, especially in the beginning when you can't figure out why your Sherman's shells seem like they say in Morse Code to a Panther "OVER HERE...YEA YOU...KILL ME OR I'LL CHIP OFF SOME MORE PAINT" .

WWII Warships-you really are trying to bring me back here more often, Jersey John. Glad to see you are back and posting again. http://www.angelfire.com/co4/u_673/images/outsideDoraI.JPG The biggest threat to the Allied war effort was the underwater devils known as U-boats. Looking out of Dora I, the U-boat bunker in Trondheim. On the left, U861 (type IX-D2) and U953 (type VII-C; call sign:U-Kater, and Commander was Karl-Heinz Marbach) is on the right in this photo. I love the photo below, one of my favorite war photos: http://uboat.net/allies/personnel/photos//gallery2.jpg Officers from USS Guadalcanal in the conning tower of the captured U-505. From left to right: Commander Trosino, Captain Gallery and Lt. Albert David.

I haven't played in awhile, but should have time for SC again now. 250083473

Hey all, Long time no post. I'm in several basketball and football game leagues (Strat-O-Matic) which are very active now, but I still lurk about the corners looking for SC2 news. I get excited every time I get a bulletin from Battlefront on Combat Mission (a great game also) Africa Corps, thinking it is SC2 news. I just wanted to say hey.

MPPed: v. (emp' d) I was winning the tactical battle, but was being MPPed to death by my income disadvantage.

Hi Mom! Can't talk long because this thread will soon be sent to The Land of the Locked.

After reading of this posturing for 2 days, I think there needs to be some stakes involved... If Terif wins, the challenge system is repealed to the way it was during the "Happy Times." He will then play who he wants, when he wants, and if he wants just as we always have. Which means he never has to play Zapp again, but he will probably revert to playing Zapp 75 times a month, just like before. But he won't be required to play him. If Zapp wins, then he becomes the champion, the ladder-admin, the most envied player of the SC world, until he loses it to another challenger. As ladder admin, he can be democratic or can choose to create whatever rules he wants. We retain the right to move on if we don't like it. After all, this was a free country until the Patriot Act.

Avatar, If DALMATIA PARTISAN will allow it, you may have my spot in the Cup. It is his tournament. I have became heavily involved in my sports strategy games (Strat-o-Matic) now, with the NFL season underway and the NBA season beginning in a month. I will be very pressed for spare time for SC until I get past some player drafts and trading deadlines. Leopard