A suggestion for dealing with Axis Dominance

[Lou Wigman]

SC is supposed to be a WWII strategy game. As such it must work if all the players choose to do the 'historical' thing. There have been plenty of posts which atest to the fact that this is in fact not the case. Leaving aside the numerous 'gamey' strategies that are being bandied about, the Germans will grind down the Russians and lead to an almost inevitable Axis victory. There have been many posts with suggestions as to how this might be redressed. I would like to offer a different one.

At present there is absolutely no pressure on the Germans in the early part of the game. They can take their time knocking out France and proceed at a leisurely pace to invade Britain. Why?

THERE IS NO DANGER OF THE RUSSIANS JOINING THE ALLIES.

I therefore propose that two alterations be made to the game.

Firstly, include a 'Historical' option for Russian entry into the war.

Secondly, greatly speed up Russian war preparation on the 'Random' setting.

This now really puts the acid on the Germans. They must take France very quickly indeed if they are to have any hope of invading Britain. Furthermore this also gives the British player a huge incentive to defend France. Hopefully this will lead to an earlier and less well prepared German attack on Russia.

Comments?

[Zeres]

[ October 28, 2002, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Zeres ]

[Norse]

That is so gamey.

[Jollyguy]

Lou, I don't know what settings you play on, I use random politics all around. But my experience is Sea Lion is tough to pull off against a prepared Allied opponent. And when it does happen, it certainly does bump up American and Russian readiness.

I am currently defending against a Sea Lion, where the Axis player obviously prepared for it as his primary objective. He never even took Norway. We are about six turns into his invasion, and he still hasn't taken London, but he is applying significant pressure. Russia declared war, and his Eastern Front is very thin, which I hope to exploit. America will join in a couple turns.

So, unless he starts getting good research luck, he has a tough road to hoe.

[arby]

Originally posted by Jollyguy:

Lou, I don't know what settings you play on, I use random politics all around. But my experience is Sea Lion is tough to pull off against a prepared Allied opponent. And when it does happen, it certainly does bump up American and Russian readiness.

I am currently defending against a Sea Lion, where the Axis player obviously prepared for it as his primary objective. He never even took Norway. We are about six turns into his invasion, and he still hasn't taken London, but he is applying significant pressure. Russia declared war, and his Eastern Front is very thin, which I hope to exploit. America will join in a couple turns.

Seems as though he didn't do a very good job of preparing for it as his primary objective. Certainly not as well as some have done, eh?

[Jollyguy]

Ah Russ, but that was my first experiment with "Iolo's" Allied strategy. My "Mulligan." Regardless, well played on your part.

The difference in the Sea Lion game I have going now is my Allied defense of France was vigourous, but not the all-or-nothing-roll-of-the-dice Iolo employs, and which I tried with you.

In this game my entire navy was intact when he landed in England, but he had supplemented his Baltic Sea fleet with about four additional subs, resulting in running naval battles with heavy losses on both sides. Plus, he has long range air to supplant his six or seven airfleets, so my naval attacks have had to be selective. The game is in no way decided, but we're six turns or so into the invasion, and I still hold all three English cities, but it is tight.

The Russians declared war, coming in with 960 MPPs. My opponents Eastern Front is thin and arrayed for defensive operations. The Americans are slated to join in a turn or two, but he has subs in the Atlantic, so getting American reinforcements across the ocean will be tricky, and possibly costly.

It's the first turn along the Eastern Front, and I've cut off his Hungarian armies, and was able to get units adjacent to the oilfields, all without firing a shot, because as we all know, the Russians can't attack worth a damn without an HQ. He's going to have to retreat the Hungarians, or risk losing them. I bought an HQ the first turn, and plan on buying a second one the next turn, so the Russians will be able to initiate offensive activity on their next turn.

That's one thing I like about this game, each game can be different. Keeps you guessing.

[iolo]

...all-or-nothing-roll-of-the-dice Iolo employs...

Nice to see that my strategies live on even after I've (more or less) retired. But I wanted to point out that I've hung up my gloves with a 13:1 win record (+ 2 unresolved games). Most games as allies.

Delaying the fall of France is vital. And if the inevitable retreat (against a strong player) is needed, the important units can be saved. It is not a 'all-or-nothing-roll-of-the-dice.' It's 'make-the-germans-pay-dearly-for-every-step-they-take-then-get-the-heck-out.'

Cheers

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

iolo, o would like to play you sometime.

CvM

[Jollyguy]

Iolo;

You forgot to mention our second game, that would have made you 13-2, where I was pouring into France by turn 4. We had to put it on hold due to your trip to N.Y.

[JayJay_H]

Originally posted by Lou Wigman:

[

THERE IS NO DANGER OF THE RUSSIANS JOINING THE ALLIES.

...

Firstly, include a 'Historical' option for Russian entry into the war.

Secondly, greatly speed up Russian war preparation on the 'Random' setting.

Comments?[/QB]

If you focus on historical accuracy of course Stalin wont be ready to enter the war to soon for the simply reason that he has a non-aggression-pact signed with Greater Germany. As originally happened, the Russians were in fact not aware of the attack preparement or if some had been, Stalin wont believe the info. If you'd like to see Russia more prepared or declare war earlier before Barbarossa will be launched, create a custom campaign and edit the campaign data: Only thing to do is to raise the initial join value of USSR.

[cyclem]

Can I ask this :

How do you make the "germans-pay-for-every-step" in the beginning of the game ?

The allies are :

1) outnumbered

2) on the defensive

This implies that the german choose what they attack with their units. They do the typical airstrike before and then attack with their strongest tank/armies.

The allies can only slow down the german, but they sure can't hurt them.

Also, how effective is it to try to slow the german? They generate more MPP than France/Britain in the beginning. If Britain supports France with air cover, they use all their MPP to reinforce their air units. How effective is that? Britain can't buy any new units, and can't invest anything in research if they commit their air units. Also, buying more time does not accelerate the participation of US and Russia in the war. So what good does it do?

Same thing with France, even if you sacrifice all the naval fleet, you can add a few corps, maybe an army, maybe a HQ. How much does this really help? You're still playing a defensive role, and maybe buy yourself 1,2 or maybe 3 turns. Wow...What difference does it make? None.

So far, It doesn't do any good against a human german player. You still get walked over by the german on the western front.

As numerous other players said, the war is won/lost on the Eastern front, versus Russia.

On the Western front, Britain and France are useless prior to participation of US.

The only thing Britain has to do, is hold on tight until the US comes to help.

My 2 cents