Blashy Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I've started a game with a friend of mine who is also new to SC. We decided to a house rule of not investing in tech and leaving it as is. What we are finding out is the game is much more of a strategy game and has virtually nothing to do with luck. That is what I've found I dislike about tech, you jump on air tech and hope you get the edge, long range AC as well. Once one side has better tech in one of those 2 areas it really breaks the game IMHO and takes away the strategic element to some extent. I find Industrial Tech not to be a game breaker but LR AC and Adv AC along with Super Subs and Tanks can really hamper a good strategy. Bottom line is that no tech = more a chess match, even harder with FOW on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I'd recommend a slight alteration, raising the major countries one or two pegs in selected technologies according to that nations strgnth, then leaving it there. That way units of minor countries won't be the qualitative equals of major countries. The problem with locking tech is that isn't very realistic -- compare aircraft and tanks from 1939 with what was in use during 1945 and you'll see a huge difference; Me 109 to Me 262, Pz II to Pz V & VI, with equally striking differences in the evolution of weapons in other countries. Then there are other advances such as radar and sonar to consider. In terms of gunnery radar it marked the first war where big guns could be uses accurately at night and in poor visability; this was a decisive edge the British had over the Italians and in the Pacific it put the Japanese at a great disadvantage to the Americans. I understand your idea and do think it puts greater emphasis on gameplay, and many of us have said that tech advances distort gameplay, but it's also an historical factor that can't be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reepicheep Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 It would be nice if there were a historical option for tech- select it, and all nations get advances at the times they did historically, with no player control over it (no chit investment at all). (And it might be good for minors regardless.) It would also be nice if when you invested a chit in a tech, it would guarantee an advancement after a certain length of time had passed, with the chances of getting it early increasing somewhat the closer you got to that point. And on an almost completely unrelated note, it would be fun to have a replay of the European theater as it actually progressed over the course of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 Originally posted by Reepicheep: It would be nice if there were a historical option for tech- select it, and all nations get advances at the times they did historically, with no player control over it (no chit investment at all). (And it might be good for minors regardless.) That could be an alternative. And Yes I agree with JerseyJohn that TECH was a factor in WW2 but not to the extent that it is in SC, at least not from what I've read, seen or heard. In SC it can be a gamebreaker, especially since your CURRENT units get upgraded automatically once you get that tech, which I find is a bad thing. Where it not there TECH might not be such a game breaker, seeing as you would have to buy a plane to get the newer models. Anti Air, Industrial Tech would obviously get auto upgrading but not the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 ". . . especially since your CURRENT units get upgraded automatically once you get that tech, which I find is a bad thing." - Blashy There's the culprit. If you're good at using key word searches (there's a search option at the top of the page) you'll find dozens of postings on that issue from the past year. What also effects things is when a country develops the highest tech levels in items such as jets or heavy armor, those units tend to have a lopsized influence, the more so as unlimited quantities can then be made, compounding the opponents weakness in those areas. [ September 10, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 I figured this was discussed before. This whole TECH thing might be ok if your current units did not get auto upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 We decided to a house rule of not investing in tech and leaving it as is. What we are finding out is the game is much more of a strategy game and has virtually nothing to do with luck. Yes the game on the stratigic level is much more enjoyable when you eleminate tech and go with the starting levels only. Combat incress's since money is now spent on units, planing and location of ground forces are important vs waiting for LR or Jets to save the day. Playing without tech is the most enjoyable way to play. [ September 10, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Blashy Yes, I think you've got the right view on it. A lot of the most interesting threads over the months have involved tech, suggested changes in tech, additions to tech, and on and on, a lot of it is great reading and worth looking through. In my early months of posting I didn't understand the search option and reinvented the wheel at least a dozen times over! [ September 10, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I prefer to limit Jet and Long Range tech to Level 3. This allows seperationm from the minors, and does simulate the research race that all extended wars produce. The limit forces a higher diversity of tech research. I also like to play with limits on air units for the same reason. Often, one player would like to research and purchase something other than air, but is afraid of falling behind their opponent, so they also invest near 100 % in air tech and units. With pre-determined limits, planning to spend MPP on non-air tech and units begins immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 The tech problem seems to be players overloading research chits in certain key areas, which the game allows (up to 5 chits at once in a single tech area). This usually results in rapid advancement to the higher levels and skews the game somewhat, at least from a historical perspective. Try playing games with only 1 or 2 chits max allowed per tech area. This could be a house rule. Advancements are much more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Another thing I thought that this game is that to get level 5 you need 5 points of research in that area. But most of all not having the current units AUTO upgrade would would solve 75% of the problem IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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