Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Ok negativity, I have had a large dose of that today, so I want to offer something positive today if it kills me. I want you guys to think hard and offer some comments on what is positive about SC, right now, right here. This version, not version SC2. And for the guys that have been here like forever, hmmm try to avoid the cliche already said to death comments. Leave them for the new guys. Me I want to say thanks Hubert for making a game that is small in file size. I want to say thanks for making the game look like a board game. I want to say thanks for making a game that is obviously not demanding of my computer (no upgrade required). I want to say thanks for not including any features that have nothing to do with running a wargame (such as imbeded films). I like how you have made a game that has not been yet another major purchase. 25 bucks, and your game is the equal of anything else out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: Ok negativity, I have had a large dose of that today, so I want to offer something positive today if it kills me. I want you guys to think hard and offer some comments on what is positive about SC, right now, right here. This version, not version SC2. And for the guys that have been here like forever, hmmm try to avoid the cliche already said to death comments. Leave them for the new guys. Me I want to say thanks Hubert for making a game that is small in file size. I want to say thanks for making the game look like a board game. I want to say thanks for making a game that is obviously not demanding of my computer (no upgrade required). I want to say thanks for not including any features that have nothing to do with running a wargame (such as imbeded films). I like how you have made a game that has not been yet another major purchase. 25 bucks, and your game is the equal of anything else out there.Sarge I know i havn't Been around long but since my time here i have to say this is the ABSOLUTE best post i have seen you make since my time here. Let me Try to state my Joy at this game. When i first stumbled onto this game i was hesitant. Sure the name sounded great. But what am i gonna see? some stinking RTS with a Emphasis on reflexes? A Build ur town Make troops as fast as you can and throw them to the front? A Micromanegament Hell? WHAT? There is no way this game can fit the bill. No way it can fill my strategic Void. Well Was i ever worng This game has Done that in Spades! I have met some of the most intelligent people ever to waste thier life on the net here, I have seen some of the best moves played that even though made me cringe at thier outcome Made me smile in thier Ingenuity. I love nothing more than a challenge and this is something this game has given back to me. A Deceptively simple interface into a Massively Complicated Game. I have been wargameing my entire life I used to Travel the Cons until it turned to all RPG and i can say though first time i played this game i thought it was ten years old I have become an addict. I know this doesn't exacly answer your question but I'm not sure that i can put my finger on one aspect of SC that is better than those that came before it. All I can say is the Whole is Greater than the Sum of the Parts. Kudo's Hubert DAMn wish i could spell then i wouldn't have to edit these things [ January 09, 2003, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Hueristic ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 What embarasses me, is I liked the game initially, then slagged it about for a while bacause it dropped the ball and wasn't actual A3R. But in looking back, and seeing the game measured against a host of other games on the market, I have to admit, the game has pulled off, what I think a lot of others might have done, but decided flash bang sold better. Hubert mastered the KISS principle in his game too. You CAN make a good game, and not sell out to the flashy graphic scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Ok, I'll bite... 1) It's the first game since Clash of Steel that covers the European part of the conflict in WW2. I love those kinds of game. Big games. Not little battles, but the whole war, any war, or a large part of it (which is one reason why I also loved War in Russia, many of Grigsby's games back with SSI, the CIV's, etc.) 2) It's about the perfect length of time for me, say ten hours against AI, fifteen or so against a player. 3) Like Heuristic says, it's mechanics, interface, etc. is very very easy. I still haven't read the rules. 4) TCP/IQ: It's awesome and this is the first game I have ever played on line. One of the reasons that boardgames faded out on me was because of the difficulty of finding players. Not just players, but ones in the same cities, with matching schedules, and that you'd even want to have over at your house. No problem with that here. There's always someone to play. I have not had a bad gaming experience yet. 5) The patches and the community that made the suggestions and the designer who listened. I'm not familiar with this, but I see it is more common now. This had a solid platform when it was released, but a few rough edges, though at the time, I didn't notice. The community had a forum to suggest their improvements (still do), and the Hubert gleaned the best of them, tested them and incorporated those that made sense. There may be good ideas out there waiting to be incorporated, but I don't think Hubert has incorporated a bad one (I love the whole Suez change). That's a sign of quality. 6) Sequence of play/Interface: I love the Panzer General feel of this game. Move/fight. Operate. Buy things. Or mix them up any way you want. Open ended on the one side, a closed circle on the other. And every thing is only two clicks away. You don't have to into massive sub menus. 7) Simplicity: The computer figures out all the routine things for you, so the player is left with just the right amount of strategic decision making. You don't have to worry about setting up convoys and doing logistics, etc. You have to be concerned about them, and act accordingly, but you don't have to mess around with them. 8) Completeness: The more I read about the suggestions and criticisms on the forum, and the more I play the game, the more I think that very, very few of them should be incorporated. The game is a finished package. U.S MMP's are ok, play balance is ok, no need for paratroopers, etc. (Rockets are still dumb though). With one exception which I will start as its own thread, echoing something Brad Tennant said. Conclusion: This about the best game, for my tastes, that I have ever played. It reminds me of playing CIV I in the evening, just one more turn!, and then seeing the sun come up Saturday morning. Same with Civ II, Clash of Steel, Panzer General, etc. Actually calling in sick at work to play. It's just that good. (I also think it's underpriced. Best $25 I ever spent). And then there's the forum, where, once you've played a person in the game and you read their posts, the posts take on more meaning. If you know what I mean. So, that' that. I bit. Les, it's a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Brian Great summation. Agreed entirely. I'm sure Hubert will correct the major things most people have a problem with. Meanwhile, the game's stregnths outweigh it's weaknesses and it is very easy to play, which is a definite plus. To me the SC site isn't as much about picking the game apart as it is discussing the era and it's might have beens. Along with everything else, good and bad, there are a lot of useful bits of information in the forums, particularly the ones about weapons, warship, aircraft and tank evolution in the twentieth century. Info that would cost hundreds in books and you get it here for free plus a fun game. All in all I'd say that $25 had a good bang for the buck. (Hueristic, your E-mail isn't functioning.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: What embarasses me, is I liked the game initially, then slagged it about for a while bacause it dropped the ball and wasn't actual A3R. But in looking back, and seeing the game measured against a host of other games on the market, I have to admit, the game has pulled off, what I think a lot of others might have done, but decided flash bang sold better. Hubert mastered the KISS principle in his game too. You CAN make a good game, and not sell out to the flashy graphic scene.Oh i forget to say Your still agrouchy Old Bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by JerseyJohn: (Hueristic, your E-mail isn't functioning.)lol i told u i needed stuff zipped Hah u filled me up! hahahaha. I'm to drunk to fix it tonight. tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroupNorth Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 SC:ET is the true heir to COS. After beating the AI a few times and beating my friend, I started afresh with a 1939 campaign, set at hard, and decided do some different stuff with the Axis. Attack Spain, leave the Italians to get Suez, invest in research. Only attack USSR when they prepare for war. Well, it was the best game ever because the AI did some decent logical moves. I almost had the Ruskies when this huge Operation Overlord force attacked Brest in late 1943. I was soundly defeated within 6 turns. The AI is just as good as any wargame out there. I hope Hubert pursues AI scripts, giving the computer various choices in where to press the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Hi Jersey John, Thanks. I'm kind of glad I didn't get a pic with it (I know you love them, but gosh, we do get tired of them). But you're right. First you read the history, then you find you are interested in it, then you want to play the game to investigate the "what if's". And then the game takes you away from that because you're too absorbed. And then when you sleep and think about it, you think about the history and the "what if's" again. That makes for a good game. I assume you have read World War 2 by John Keassy (sp). Awesome book. Great insight, and an easy read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Brian "I assume you have read World War 2 by John Keassy (sp). Awesome book. Great insight, and an easy read." Haven't but thanks for mentioning it, will put it on the list. Another good one, single volume both Atlantic and Pacific is "Blood, Tears and Folly" by Len Deighton. As for the pics, posted 1 in the past 40 or so entries. And that was the last. They're a lot of trouble to look for and they somehow cause antagonisms so who needs the aggravation. [ January 10, 2003, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Smile, Jersey John. Look the pics were great, but there were just so many of them. Your words are better. I'll check out your book (I am sure it's at the libary, and I don't much care for the author, someting seconds over tokyo, etc.) if you check out mine. It's truly insightful. Keeney. It's got to be Keeney. He wrote a book about WW1 and WW2, and the best chapters began as such: Roosevelt's Strategic Dilemna. Churchill's Strategic Dilemna, Hitler's Strategic Dilemna. etc. It put it all into perspective. Now I'm mad that I can remember that guys name!. Keesey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 Is that name suposed to be Keegan? an otherwise very well written historian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 JJ, the ole Still is gettin lonely, What! No more stills. By the way at 52, I can tell u it only gets worse, keep playin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 SeaMonkey Thanks for the advice, trying to find the still right now but I'm a bit groggy from being hung-over. "By the way at 52, I can tell u it only gets worse, keep playin. " Also good advice and I can say for certain that at 53 it has only gotten worse! Sarge I believe you're right, it must be Keagan, an excellent history/military history author who also appears occasionally on the History Channel. BriantheWise thanks again for the fine suggestion. Will try to post a few more of my own in a few days when I have them organized. [ January 10, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahlwolf Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Well, there is not much left to say, but I do it anyway... But I try it the other way round. I tell you what I do not like about many (there are always exceptions though) games today. the term strategic is abused, so called real time games do not force you to think strategic but train your finger muscles and your click-rate. Technical aspects prevail over gamefun very often. I got a Game Cube, modern & old PC, Dreamcast and some old Ataris (ST,STE & Falcon) and play on each system many games. But most games are just like films or whatever, short life expectation, you go wow look at the effects, after you seen all of them or gotten used to few keep you at the screen. SC is wonderful different! First I said: Whats that? Graphics in 2002 could be a little better even in a strategic game! Anyway an old Panzer General addicted I could not resist downloading the demo, and ****, they got me then. I played the demo and got angry any time it ended for I just hat begun to play (well two hours just slipped away!) so I bought it, had&have plenty of fun playing it and learned much about ww II in this forum,too. What I like most is the freedom of choice. If I think advanced subs are better than jetpower, I loose, but I can still decide (and against an easy A.I. Level, you can win even with silly strategics). Your fleet can die as an Ally fighting for sweden as well, as you can bust it in turkey while trying to put up a third front against russia as an axis player. Just wonderful and I do not repent a single dollar I spent. This is not a comercial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 bad english, good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahlwolf Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Sorry for the bad english!!! I am little out of practise....(hope not mistakes in this post... ) Stahlwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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