SC2 - Strategy & Siberian Transfer Variant

[Edwin P.]

1. Siberian Transfer should be based on war in the East (Pacific). This would give the Allies a chance to influence when the Siberian Transfer Occurs.

2. When US enters war it should have the option to request reinforcements from the Pacific. If this is done then their should be a chance, not a certainty, that Siberian transfer forces should be reduced or delayed due to increased Japanese Pressure in Eastern Russia.

Example: US requests Carrier from Pacific. 80% Siberian transfer delayed by X Turns.

3. The US should have the option to send reinforcements to the Pacific. This should increase the chance for a Siberian Transfer occuring earlier (ie when the Germans cross a point farther West).

Example: Each US or UK unit sent to the Pacific via a Pacific Transit Hex has a 80% to move the activation point for the Siberian transfer 1 hex out from Moscow.

Example: 1 US Corps to the Pacific = Siberian Transfer activated at 4 hexes not 3 hexes from Moscow. 2 corps to Pacific = activation point is 5 hexes from Moscow.

This would give the allied player a limited amount of influence over when the Siberian transfer occurs.

[Desert Dave]

Edwin P,

But ANOTHER! great and inspired suggestion for SC2!

Myself, I would like to see... DECISION TREES!

As part of RANDOM EVENTS, so that you would get a pop-up box, which would say something like this:

"USA's Strategic Command HQ offers the possibility of additional Naval Power in the Atlantic."

"You may EITHER... check the box... for another Carrier in the Atlantic, which results in the chance of later entry by the Siberian Berserkers,

OR... you may select... the arrow... and go here:"

**(... you could go practically ANYWHERE at all, but, here's one example)

"Check the box if you want USA to FOCUS on Armor production... improved possibility for Armor Tech advance IF you place a chit within the next 4 turns."

Or, you could check the box that says... ignore.

ETC, etc.

The idea being... allow the gamer to proceed through these decision trees in order to select those aspects of the war that most interests him or her. Mostly "hims" I guess, who contest instead of relating empathically... Ooops, that's off-topic, and for another Forum... well anyway,

It may be extremely difficult in Coding, I don't know, but... these sorts of decision trees would GEOMETRICALLY increase the re-playability of... what is commonly recognized as a fairly restricted theatre of operations.

You can't really deviate all that much without getting into... truly ODD "what-ifs," and many old grogs just don't... cotton to much of that kind of... I was going to say... blasphemy, but that would be too-too extreme!

And so, let's have... RANDOM EVENTS and DECISION TREES... sprouting like mushrooms after a Spring-time storming... all over the place! :cool:

[Edwin P.]

Immer Etwas,

Decision Trees, now thats new and interesting, especially if you were not sure of the result of your decision.

Example:

US Requests Carrier From Atlantic

Possible Effects

1. Delayed Siberian Transfer and/or

2. Japanese shares technology with Germany - Germany gains 1 tech chit.

3. UK Loses Merchant Shipping Route from through the Med. as reduced US effort in the Atlantic allows Japan to Conquer India

4. No Effect

5. Carrier sunk on way to Panama Canal by Japanese task force/subs.

Naturally earlier decisions that you made should impact the chance for each of these results. Ie if the US requested 3 carriers from the Atlantic then their should be a chance for Complete Japanese victory in the Pacific and thus no Siberian transfer would occur.

Example 1 Carrier Request: 10% Complete Japanese Victory, 2 Carrier Groups Transferred 40% Complete Japanese Victory, 3 Carrier Groups Requested 80% Complete Japanese Victory in the Pacific

[ August 28, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

Excellent ideas in both posts.

Immer

Another decision, this one for the Axis, could be Mussolini keeps Italy neutral and the influx of trade results in +20 MPPs per turn to Germany, stopped forever when Italy enters the war.

As you said, the possibilities are endless and can apply to any area of the game.

[kurt88]

Great ideas!

SC2 (IMHO) should become more event-driven,like CORE HOI,this is a community mod for Hearts of Iron.It containes over a hundred events,both random and historical,and when they pop-up the player is asked to choose between several options.

These choices then further influence the gameplay both diplomatically and research wise.

If SC2 then was equipped with an editor to create your own events....

Possibilities are endless.

Ooh,here's the Core website if anyone wants to take a look at it:

Core HOI

If you look at the 'Finished' section you can glance at tons of events that are included in the game!

Just imagine some of these in SC2!

[ August 28, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ]

[Edwin P.]

Great Idea Kurt

Moreover the method that HOI uses for events seems easy to implement with the events being text files created according to a specificed naming convention.

Ie Russian Events #222000 - 271999

Ie UK Events #272000 - 321999

This leaves room for lots of player designed events.

[kurt88]

Yes,so players could make their scenarios as historical or ahistorical as they please.

But I think for this event-engine to work at best,it's necessary for SC2 to become a bit expanded.

On the level of diplomacy things would have to be more than just :' neutral ; allied ; axis '

Minors should be convinced to join one of the two factions.The engine could help to keeps things historical.

Something like:

'Support coup in Romania ? ' : yes or no

-if yes then (a few turns later,exact date to keep it historical)

'Romanian puppet installed,Romania sends X (oil,iron,steel or mpp's) to Germany' : accept?

-yes then : Transfer of shipment and Romania X´% towards nazism.

-no then: Relations cooled,no shipment,Romania x´% towards allies.

and so on,an event created diversity of minors joining or not.

Allies could have 'share research' events,shipments from US before it really joined the Allies (which is historical),...

And then of course random events.

On the level of research some added techs would help.

Also it's good to have 2 or 3 goods that in turn produce mpp's (oil,iron,steel),moreover on a bigger map, I think.

[jon_j_rambo]

How about an option: "Request emergency Pacific troops", but at a penalty. The enemy may receive victory points or something. Just an idea, from Sid Meier's Gettysburg. That is, if you take "extra-troops", it costs you victory condition penalties.

[Glez]

Very creative gentlemen but this thread will undoubtedly vanish into the endless "SC2 wishlists" and "SC2 suggestions". What I would like to hear is Hubert saying what he thinks and what he is looking to incorporate.

For all we know there may never even be a SC2.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Edwin P.

Decision Trees, now thats new and interesting, especially if you were not sure of the result of your decision.

Absolutely!

The thing is, you could have a finite set that would be operative for every game and situation, and you could have some that only kick in... depending on which side you are playing.

And you could have some that are the result of weather conditions (... also RANDOM, as our Events) and you could have some that branch off to 3 or 4 different conclusions!

And of course, you would... JUST NEVER KNOW for sure, you would have to... take a chance!

The permutations and possiblities are endless!

I remember playing Avalon Hill's 3rd Reich, and one of my favorite moments was... selecting those 1 or 2 chits to see WHICH unique Event would influence that particular game. :cool:

In A3R of course, they have dice-activated decision trees of a sort, since much of the diplomacy and research depends on RANDOM die rolls, so that... for one game you might get better Air or Naval DRMs, and the next time you would see Spain join the Axis.

That too was one of my favorite aspects, simply because... you could never tell what might suddenly arrive!

To foil your best-laid plans!

Adapting on-the-fly, so to speak, is what we Humans do... BEST.

That is when we are... "next to the gods," when it is that we have to... IMPROVISE.

If it is more EXCITEMENT that we are after, and nearly limitless re-playability, then "Random Events" and "Decision Trees" would be one fabulous way to go.

I very much hope that Hubert will Code these sorts of things into SC2. Perhaps, with a toggle for those who don't wish to be... happily surprised!

[TCPilot]

I don't see how U.S. involvement has any bearing on the Siberian Army transfer. Japan wasn't at war with the Russians until 1945 when Russia declared war on them.

I also see no real point for the U.S. carrier event. The British and to a lesser extent the French pretty much wipe out the Axis navy.

[ August 29, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: TCPilot ]

[J P Wagner]

BUMP....

[Edwin P.]

TCP

True, the US does not really need the carriers if the Germans have not launched a succesful Sea Lion.

Then the US would need carriers and cruisers to retake the UK, hopefully before Russia fell to the German Onslaught.

[Night]

Yes this I like, it reminds me PTO where events in Europe would increase or decrease the amount of forces and resources you got in certain months, but in that you had no real control of it and it was all historical.

great idea.