Night Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 It is simply impossible for the Russin's to withstand the German and Italian attack in SC without the aid of a winter or the ability to move factory's etc. If the Axis player is really good, or atleast has a decent sense of what he/she is doing, it is no contest. After all the plunder and exp. gained from the easy countries like France, Denmark, Yugo, Norway, Poland, etc. The attack into Russia is simply to overwhelming, the Russin unit's can barley even damage German one's even if Zuchov or another HQ is involved. This game I have right now, the German's have 7 Level 2 Air Fleets on the Russin front, and they started out with 6 simply because they had so much MPPs, Now at the start the Russin air force cannot compete with any German one obviously, but even after getting level 2 jets of my own and having HQ's around, the exp that they have along with thier own HQ's made them totally devestate my planes if i tried to fight. In addition to not being able to stop them from attacking, thier attacks on ground unit's are even more 1 sided. doing 2-5 damage in almost all cases with no return hits. Meaning they could destroy about 2 unit's with thier Air fleets alone every turn! And if they spread out the damage and let the ground unit's mop up, they could kill even more. I cannot keep up with these losses and the Western allies are basicly in a stalemate with MORE German planes in France. Right now I am going to ethier just blitz across the channel and pray for a port or a string of lucky victories, although it is unlikley because they have atleast 1 high Exp. HQ in france. My other plan's included attack's somewhere in the med and hopefully drawing as much away from russia as i can, but honestly even if I got a good number of unit's to come back, it wouldn't matter. There is nothing I can forsee that will save me. And this is the 3rd or 4th game like this I played trying diffrent strats. to see if i can atleast get some success. Honestly I am not a bad player, obviously not the best in the world but I have been playing wargames for a long time and I have had SC for a little over a month now and play every day. Unless there is something huge i'm missing. If anyone has a workable strat. for this situation please let me know, I looked for a while on the forum but didn't find anything new or that I didn't try already. Thanx for listening to me bitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Sea Monkey posted the same issue recently, except his nemesis was the 8 tank units (his opponent let him off easy with only 5 air fleets). :eek: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002026 I guess the key is to chip away at the Axis wherever and whenever you can to keep the MPP down. Easier said than done. Does seem to be hard to bear when the real-life Luftwaffe was stretched exceedingly thin already by '41. Perhaps there needs to be a cap on air fleets, but setting any limitation opens up a Pandora's box. [ February 06, 2003, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: Steve C ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Thanks i'll check it out. I have to figure something out I really wanna win this one. It's so so tough though, hardest part of the game by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Hello Night. In your current game it seems to be too late for Allies to win. But Russia has no problem to withstand Axis if you have a long term strategy as Allied player. There are two main strategies to reach this: 1. The action strategy: good for impatient players, interesting but you need to know when and where to attack and when to retreat to do this successful. You fight till the last man and mpp with your Allied forces, give Axis a hard time conquering France and the neutrals. Try to defend Egypt or Spain, land in Denmark to cut of the northern countries ( supply goes down from 8 to 5 )and so on... Allies will have very high losses, but Axis too (Axis should loose as much or more than Allies)and they can never afford 7 airfleets + ground forces for Russia. Especially if they need units all along their coasts to defend against UK and later US attacks. Normally you then can make trench warfare in Russia, get stronger and after some turns slowly but surely march towards Berlin. 2. The research and airsuperiority strategy: You fight for France but dont get too much involved with your UK forces. At the end try to save as much french units as possible. Dont forget to attack Ireland when Italy entered the war ( you need the mpp early). Invest your mpp in research to get jets and long range for your air and more important, the 3 carriers. Dont attack too early, you need at least Lv2 or 3 in jets and long range, so your carriers are stronger than the German air. Try to build up their experience by attacking helpless ground units ( without enemy air besides them...). One or two turns before Germany has to attack Russia you have to invade. Hopefully with your free French task force or US troops. Best is France and/or Low Countries. By this time you should have some airfleets, 3 carriers and some tech advances. Therefore you have total airsuperiority. Axis needs a lot of units to defends the ressources and cities along the border that they cant use for their attack on Russia. With your air it should be no problem to kill 1-3 units each turn at minimal losses. Axis is strong at this point, but your air is much stronger, and if they send airfleets to France, simply destroy them with your carriers. Hightech carriers with experience are unbeatable. They can only be destroyed if you make a very big mistake. Take care of ships and especially subs: some Allied ships should protect your carriers against them. If Axis operates a lot of Air to France, you should see them with long range, be careful and destroy them one after the other - first let an airfleet intercept, then kill it with a direct attack. Conclusion: The key to success (and to save Russia is not to allow Axis a strong force in Russia. UK and US have the task to kill them before and/or bind them at other fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Move your airfleets back, what you can save of them...place stacks of corps..and attack finland... You simply have to have a strong Western Contigent to tie up what you can. I usually find a good Russian player keeps me on Straight lines... Good fortified corps on cities making it a pain in the arse. A war of attrition and I hate it! Plan mini raids on France. It gets on their nerves! As well as in Norway/Sweden or N.Africa...good to tie up the luftwaffe between the red airforce later in the game after she has gotten some tech and the Allies in Sweden... Cutting off the German's head in the Baltic<a very wealthy area> WATCH OUT FOR IRAQ!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Actually Liam I pulled off a great operation using the Air Unit's pulled back from the front an the two Russin cruisers and Took Finland totally, first time ever I did it while still being pushed back per say. This for some reason seems to have kept the germans away from lenningrad, but it is more likley due to the fact that I placed a strong defence in the hopes that I could turn the war around there. But they pushed everywhere else insted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 Well believe it or not guy's I think I am on my way to turning this around... This is what I did, I used the first 4 US armies and an HQ in a plan I had to first attack Iraq, then move up into russia with the force in order to help stem the German flow, and at the same time use the MPPs from Iraq to finance my attack into france. Well it worked beutifully. Iraq fell and I was able to operate my 4 armies and HQ right to Moscow, and a turn before my Siberian army had transfered. The German's are attempting to use the basic city taking tactic of cutting off the supply line to stop reenforcments in Kharkov east of Stalingrad, I realized if this city fell then the Russin industrial heart land south of Stalingrad, I don't know the regions name, would fall and there goes all my oil mines MPPs etc. So what I did was form a supply line of Corps from Kharkov to Rostov to the southeast, and it seems to be working perfectly and the city has yet to fall. Meanwhile I had landed in france and taken brest and managed to kill a German airfleet as well as a tank group and 2 corps. I have a huge force in france and a lot more on the way since the US in making much more now and the UK is no longer in a stalemate fight with the Luftwaffe. I don't think the German's can hold france for to long, and if they do it's gonna be a meat grinder of troops they need on the eastern front. Hopefully, in combination with my siberian army and the US force in Russia, as well as the troops being pulled back to france, I can push back the German force. It's still gonna be a hard battle since they are so close to Moscow and such, but honestly I think if I continue to play right I might be able to pull it off. The 7 Airfleets in Russia are still a problem, but I don't think they will be enough to break my defence for now, and i'm working on a plan to take them out. I hope I can come up with another great plan and make up for my poor preformance prior to the Russin war. This is probally one of the best games I ever had going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Night,your story really wants me to go play again,right now! [ February 06, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Night,your story really makes me want to start playing again,right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 I know what ya mean man. Being able to turn something like that around is great, reminds me of the real war. I'll keep you all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 OMG wait till you read this. Remember how I said the Axis attempted to cut the supply route to Kharkov? They sent a lot of armies on the other side of the city and I made my corps supply line from Rostov. Well those armies that went behind Kharkov definatly thought that they and the unit's in front would easily break the city since it couldn't resupply or get new troops there. Well since it didn't fall due to my supply line, the armies behind it were basicly able to do nothing, I did some manuevering and cut them off after 3 turns of them being in the rear of the city, despite the best efforts of some Italian unit's that moved to keep thier supply line open. So I whind up having 2 German Armies with 4 bars of Exp., 1 German Corps with 1.5 bars of exp. 1 Romanian Army with 2 bars, and 1 Italian army with 3.5 bars of exp TRAPED with no supply line and prospect of being able to fight out with 0 supply! IT IS SO GREAT! I already killed the corps and all the armies are below half strengh I had to stop and come post this. Seriously reminds me of Stalingrad in real life. After I kill these last armies the Axis will be in retreat! And I came here thinking all was lost LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 LOL On top of the 4 armies and corps mention'd above, I have another German army surronded in the mines north of Sevastopol (which has been under siege but not fallin) and it has 2 bars of exp. Another Itallian Army attacking over that troublesome land-bridge thing to the east of Sevastopol leading the to south of Rostov was beatin back by 2 Corps of mine with an HQ and killed. How do you take Screenshots and post em? you gotta see these poor German's now. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 WOOT NIGHT Excellent Mate, you're kicking butt. Becareful now, don't go ahead yourself, keep those cities cause he's way ahead of himself. You just want to kill what you can and stack so many Corps that it's just a stalemate in Russia and then eventually Russian tech and Caucus<sp? mnt Industry will kick in! The Industrial Heartland of Russia is in the Ural Mountains and the Mineral Wealth inbetween the Black and Caspian Seas. I would focus on getting WESTERN Air Fleets to protect your ground forces. Usually their tech is better. Also if you have Iraq. Heck, try a TRICK slip in a few corps via the black sea into the Balkans see if you can't capture Romania. Knock those units out of the War without having to kill them. Becareful of Normandy. He may have something behind the lines waiting for you! I usually wait for the guy to committ, then I kill what he's landed knowing the Western Allies can't afford to replace losses of Armies/Tanks as easy as Russia/Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Oh! A neat trick, throwing death corps out into German Lands.. even though you lose a lot remeber you keep Supply keep important Marsh lands. Important Mountain Fortresses. If you've got stacks of Units! You can operate any Air to Moscow too....! You should have reinforcements soon. Move back the Russian Aircraft and wait for tech. If he has tech 4 BECAREFUL! Always keep your Russian Air Units Maxed. Watch out if he starts striking your HQs.. Your combined UK and US Air can be a deciding factor in Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Yeah thing's in France were pretty rough at first, he had 3 Highly Exp. air fleets behind the lines real far and my air couldn't keep up with them, they pounded my armies, but I landed behind the lines with fresh troops from England across the Calis (sp) using the trick of putting a warship in the london port then when you load your transports they will already be on the coast of france so you can unload right away. he DEFINATLY wasn't ready for that because even though he was beatin up my unit's in western france I cut straight down and to the border with Germany/France/Switz so now basicly France is cut off beside's for it's HQ and the Air Fleets he has on the border have to retreat, and one was damaged badly by my army and that should take some nice Exp. away from it I think this move saved my armies in France, i was getting beat up after a while by the highly exp. Eastern Front troops and Air they brought over. I had already considered your plan to Attack the Balkin's eariler in the game but decided against it because I simply couldn't spare the unit's and was afraid of the German Air unit's that might see the transports. However now I am sending 3 corps across the black sea in order to attack the Balkins, but as of now it's almost useless, the front collapsed so fast you would not BELIEVE it. 3 turn's after I finished off the armies I traped, I had taken back Kiev and for some reason Odessa was left undefended I suppose due to the fact that they are Operating Air and HQ's outta the area really fast, so an advanced corps of mine cap. It also. Minsk will fall next turn it is completely encircled, and the poor unit's putting Lenningrad undersiege were left there by thier HQ Rommel (Who I missed killing/entraping by 1 Strentgh point!!) and got killed by some of my tanks. 1 Problem I am having is that I never got a chance to employ my plan to take out the Air units... and all have been operating back and back as I advance hitting me every other turn or so killing a lot of units. But it really doesn't matter since they have almost no ground unit's left besides in France and I am simply driving forward at a breakneck pace. Greatest game of SC I have ever had, I love SC! Can someone tell me how to take and post a Screenshot? I have one saved of the Traped German Armies I want to show you. It's classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Well it's offically over Nothing really amazing after my landing behind the lines in France. I took a Soviet group into the balkins and knocked all of them outta the war then just crushed Germany. Italy fell shortly after. Greatest game ever, I thought for sure i was finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 For Terif Terif, that's some great stuff about airpower and aircraft carriers. Do you give two research points to jets and /or industry? I usually give two points to jet, industry and tanks, and one to other research areas for axis; two points to jets, industry and anti-tank if allies. If I may ask how do you spread your research points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Good post Night - interesting how you turned back the nazi tide. I think most players (myself included) get too depressed in mid 42 and conceade the game just when the axis player is starting to slow down and you can start counter attacking. The botton line is it's a very long game and take several hours play against a equal player to find out which side is going to win Interesting post by Terif. The only thing I would add is that the Russians should not fight for every hex - at the start retreat and pull the axis player into the ruissan stepp where his supply is very poor. Even experenced units die easy with 20% readness and level 2 supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Its every time interesting and fun to beat back the Axis invasion in Russia, as well as invading France and/or other countries with Allied forces . In Nights game it was luck, that Axis made the mistake not to take Eqypt and Iraq - and the mine north of Sewastopol... For Seawolf: In the second strategy I usually give 7-10 chits to jets and long range research (UK). Investing in antitank or tanks is useless, cause this doesnt improve the free french and UK has no other land forces but some corps. USA has to invest in antitank or tanks - they build the ground troops - and nothing in air. Investing in industrial resarch is normally not worth the mpp. Only if you are very lucky in research... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Iron, I know the feeling of just getting to frustrated and giving up on that part of the game lol. Terrif, I had that mine well defended, I never ever give up MPPs without a big fight. I won't totally wreck myself trying to save 1 mine but I found retreating and forming a defence farther back just let's him have more MPPs for longer and you less for longer, which to me makes no sense. I think part of the key is that you have to make as much MPPs as possible, if you are still out producing him, you will slowly close the gap even if you are losing more unit's. In one of my games I didn't really put any new unit's in the firs set of cities that the Axis would reach in Russia but tried to form a defence line farther into russia. Even though i had a solid line with no holes, it didn't work. He broke through after a while and I could only plug up so much. My strat is to defend everything and keep getting those MPPs for as many extra turns as you can. It really adds up after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I agree Night, Corp deaths pull back the expensive units, hold back the armies and tanks to counter attack any really weakened german units that might possibly give you much needed experience and loss of strength for the Gremans without heavy losses to your own troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Exactly, It's obvious that most of you defencsive troops will be killed so save the armies,tanks,and air. But you have to put something in front of them, the terrian sure isn't gonna keep them from moscow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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