Jollyguy Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 1) I don't mind the Free French, but there should be a practical limit on it. In a TCP game last night I evacuated a modest four French corps to England, plus the French airfleet, and moved the two French Med units to Malta and Egypt. My opponent took Paris, but France didn't fall until the next turn, after he destroyed two more units. Although I haven't seen it yet -- but have seen discussion of it on this thread, I believe this leaves open a gamey strategy of evacuating the bulk of the French units to England and denying the Axis the French plunder, as the Axis will never be able to destroy enough French units sequestered on the English Isles to get past the required threshhold. (Let me know if I'm incorrect in this assumption.) Solution: Preferred would be a substantial penalty to the Allied player for following this strategy, in either MPPs or US/Russian readiness. I don't mind gamey strategies, as long as there is a cost for doing so. 2) Gamey strategy of destroying all Polish units but not taking Warsaw, so Russia can't occupy Eastern Poland. I believe this strategy just evolved. Perhaps there is an appropriate penalty in place, but we just don't know it. Yes, the Axis player doesn't get the plunder, but he could trigger that anytime if needed by leaving a corp next to Warsaw. Maybe you could enlighten us on how this is handled. My guess, the Eastern European minors join later. If this is correct, let us know, otherwise, the penalty for this type of Axis strategy needs to be beefed up. 3) Allied landings in Sicily, et al. at Italian DOW. I really don't mind when this happens and I'm playing the Axis, as the Allied player generally loses more mpps than it's worth, plus his transports sometimes get hit if Italy DOWs at the end of the Allied turn. But this tactic is annoying, and probably historically improbably. Italy should probably start with a corp down there. Maybe split one of the two armies near the French border into two corps. As to Allied DOW's on Denmark and the Low Countries. I have no problem with this, as there are appropriate US/Russian readiness penalties to the Allies for doing so. I know some Axis players on this thread are still perplexed on how to counter this Allied strategy, but there is a workaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Italy had large forces near Genoa at the start of the war; but it also had garrisons in Sicily, Trieste, Bari, Rome and what would be a seperate corps to garrison Genoa. Why should four of those five cities not be garrisoned? It's easy enough to place a corps in each of them, leaving those two armies free and at the same time eliminating all this unnecessary gamy nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 One way to approach the concens above is by giving the Axis a premium for quickly taking over a country. ...say the Axis can blitzkrieg Poland in two weeks or France by April 1940 ... I would propose this quick victory lowers Russian and US readiness. Alternatively, or in addition to, a quick victory could allow for a somewhat higher plunder - someone suggested this elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Finally a really original idea. Sounds interesting. It would be nice if Germany could wrap up the Polish campaign by the true date, which I believe was around Sept 16th, but all in all I can't complain much about this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 1) Ok I can do something intuitive here 2) How about this could be considered as part of the Germans pseudo-breaking the Molotov Ribbentrop pact and be treated with Soviet war readiness increasing if Poland is not properly defeated and subdivided as previously agreed? 3) Ok I can do this Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 1) Ok I can do something intuitive here The game should not reward the Allied player for evacuating France and the French colonies. Recommend ALL French units surviving surrender be subject to 20% chance of becoming Free French. Those located within France could be magic-moved to Britain, that way there's no advantage to moving them there early. Also, units in Algeria and Syria could become Free French, and thus those colonies could become British assets IF the garrisons remain in place. That would spice up the game a little. The other proposed tweaks sound good also. One other thing. If you're going to tweak the Italians, how about starting the Finns entrenched? That's one of those things we can't edit ourselves. [ December 02, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Bill Macon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 I think I put my foot in my mouth here didn't I? Ok last chance at suggestions for everyone, after that I've got to start looking towards SC2! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Agree with Bill's entire entry and with Hubert's solution regarding Poland. The French thing is truly annoying, it's like saying France's only purpose is to provide free troops for Britain! In Bill's posting I assume there would be a random chance that each of the French possessions, Algeria and Syria would go either Vichy or Free. In reality they both went Vichy (along with most of the other French colonies: only a few distant ones went Free French). Though Syria went Vichy, it was taken over by the Brit's, along with Iraq which was having a minor pro-German coups. In the game I presume that would be treated as Syria going Free French as it wouldn't make much sense to take Syria while handing Algeria and Vichy over to the Axis. Historically, Vichy should have declared war on Britain six times over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 The game should not reward the Allied player for evacuating France and the French colonies. Recommend ALL French units surviving surrender be subject to 20% chance of becoming Free French. Those located within France could be magic-moved to Britain, that way there's no advantage to moving them there early. Also, units in Algeria and Syria could become Free French, and thus those colonies could become British assets IF the garrisons remain in place. That would spice up the game a little. The other proposed tweaks sound good also. One other thing. If you're going to tweak the Italians, how about starting the Finns entrenched? That's one of those things we can't edit ourselves.Actually I really like these ideas but again probably not until SC2, I know same old song and dance Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted December 2, 2002 Author Share Posted December 2, 2002 I agree with Hubert about my previous suggestions, keep the fixes simple, not major modifications. I don't mind the Free French, just get rid of the option to evacuate 2000 + mpps of units to England. The plane and a few land units is reasonable for the Allied player that doesn't want to put up a stiff defense on the mainland. But supplanting a modest Free French force with an HQ, a tank, and several armies, and maybe more, is overkill. Also, I wouldn't want to see any of the Med Vichy colonies handled differently, maybe for SC 2, but not SC 1. Their placement in SC 1 is strategic, changing it would upset gameplay. The not take Warsaw thing is totally, totally gamey. Overall I don't mind gamey, but if someone tried this on me I'd consider stopping the game and moving on. Having Russian readiness climb if Warsaw is not taken in X number of turns would be an ideal solution, as those Russians are a sly bunch, and they'd definately react in some protective manner if something squirely was happening on their borders. Putting a corp in Sicily is also an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Very well, I trust that something intuitive for the Free French will be better than what we have now. I've taken to not playing the Free French option in both TCP/IP and solo play because it is so annoying. Historically the Free French were not as significant as they tend to be in SC, and certainly not to the point of having HQs and air fleets at this scale. But it is a game option and we can turn it off if we don't like it. Ultimately, some chance that the French colonies could become free rather than Vichy seems reasonable. Third Reich provided a 50% chance, which may be too high. 20% sounds good. But I agree with Hubert that we should wrap up SC1 and defer these other ideas to SC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Hubert -- It would be good if somewhere along the line you made a general posting of what changes will be going into the next patch and what changes will be going into SC2. Especially SC2! There have been so many ideas regarding things like the Russian Winter , the Battle of the Atlantic , Production Schedules, The North American Invasion Problem and numerous other things that the many players who have made those suggestions would enjoy knowing which ones you'll be incorporating. And probably most importantly from your viewpoint, you won't have those same people making those same suggestions again! [ December 02, 2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: I think I put my foot in my mouth here didn't I? Ok last chance at suggestions for everyone, after that I've got to start looking towards SC2! HubertPlease! I hope you have read my topic also (conerning patch 1.06) before you make your final patch before the SC2. Some of the changes i proposed are VERY easy to make. Ofcourse the flaws are the crucial things to fix so i hope you fix em all! If you have read them, can you comment on them like you did here i.e answering what changes that are probable to be made? [ December 02, 2002, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Some of the changes i proposed are VERY easy to make. Of course the flaws are the crucial things to fix so i hope you fix em all! There are a lot of easy-to-make changes on the wish list, but I'll go with Hubert on this and say it's time to wrap up SC1 and move on to SC2. Trust me, the crucial flaws are being resolved with the latest proposed patch changes. The game won't be "perfect" but will be balanced and playable. That's pretty good for a debut game and meets all the initial design objectives. Time for the curtain to drop on this and move on to the encore performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 If you have read them, can you comment on them like you did here i.e answering what changes that are probable to be made?Read your thread and good news is that there is some overlap from your suggestions that will make it's way into v1.06. Once the patch is close to release I'll comment on all the included changes more formally Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> If you have read them, can you comment on them like you did here i.e answering what changes that are probable to be made?Read your thread and good news is that there is some overlap from your suggestions that will make it's way into v1.06. Once the patch is close to release I'll comment on all the included changes more formally Hubert</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Three cheers (again!) for a fantastically responsive game designer & team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Ditto on preceding two -- looking forward to it. [ December 03, 2002, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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