The problem with human force pools

[somerandomguy]

The two available infantry units are of rather large size, this would consume a lot of man power. This takes large numbers of men to form one unit. Say that I want to form a defensive line along a 5 hex front, but due to the force pool I can only build an army or a 3 corps, this leaves a large gap in the line. To fix this maybe a division size unit can be created. This would use less men, but give more units to cover a front. Maybe the option to stack divisions and create corps or stack a few corps to create an army could also be created. The last idea may be a bit detailed for those who like the simple play of SC, but its only a dicsuusion.

[disorder]

somerandomguy-- said,

Maybe the option to stack divisions and create corps or stack a few corps to create an army could also be created. The last idea may be a bit detailed for those who like the simple play of SC, but its only a dicsuusion.

shhhh! be very, very quiet. last time someone mentioned stacking they were systematically pulled off street corners, and tortured until admitting that stacking was wrong. once a signed confession was on the books, they were strung up in a basement by piano wire, and photographed as they died. to this very day, that fateful night is still called "crystal-stacking-nacht".

but seriously , go to the search engine link and type in "stacking' and see what happens. should be quite a few recent posts pop up regarding it.

i profess to be neutral on the stacking thing.....but bring on something like VICHY FRANCE and WATCH OUT!

[Shaka of Carthage]

Soft Defense factor of a Corp is already at a value of one (1). Assuming you make another unit that is 1/2 that size, would give you a value of .5. SC unit concept would have to be totally redone to allow this.

Command and Control within military circles generally agrees that at the level of command you hold, you can go one or two levels deeper, but no more. In other words, if you are in charge of Army Groups, you concern yourself with Armies and Corps. So when a wargame is designed, they usually end up following the same concept.

Most boardgamers know this, but some of you computer gamers have never heard of it, so hear goes.

In any hex based game, there is something called the "grain" of the hex. In SC, turn on your hex grid overlay. The "grain" runs north to south. Or if its easier for you, just remember that barrels stacked on top of each other are the grain. The optimum defensive line should follow the grain with one vacant hex between each defensive position. The advantages are:

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• Can only be attacked from two hexes at one time.</font>
• Most economical use of units in defense.</font>
• Unit cannot be surrounded.</font>
• If the line is broken, relatively easy to counterattack the breakthru unit.</font>

While it is not the considered the worst, stacking the units adjacent to each other (known as "packing") is considered wasteful of units.

Terrain of course will change the placement of your units, but instead of looking for a "cheap" unit to "pack" the line with, try following the grain and leaving a vacant hex between your units.

Then use those extra units you have now freed up to form a second defensive line that can counterattack any enemy breaking the front line.

There is more to it than this, but the above should give you a starting point.

[ May 05, 2003, 03:01 AM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

[Valadictum]

If hex based strategy is so predictable for those in the know, are there realistic alternatives? Hearts of Iron didn't seem to use hexes, though I've gone off that game for other reasons.

[Panzer39]

Why not allow the creation of half strength units? Or better yet allow the creation of any strength unit and adjust the price accordingly. Need to defend a large front build 5 half strength corps. Want to begin work on a navy, buy a one strength BB etc.

[pzgndr]

Why not allow the creation of half strength units?

This would be good for SC2 for two reasons. One, it allows you to buy those big-ticket items like Air Fleets and Battleships on the installment plan for those who don't like planning ahead and saving MPP's. Second, making ALL builds at either half strength or 5-factors would require at least two turns before you have a new full-strength unit. This wouldn't completely resolve the concern about "instant" units, but would simulate at least some construction delay. Those low-strength cadre units could either be built up immediately, or deployed as garrison forces or whatever and beefed up later as necessary.

[KDG]

Just develope a unit with a soft defense factor of 0. HQ's have air defense of 0, why not a unit with soft defense of 0.

Now to play devils advocate for what I just said. Having really cheap units would allow the coasts to be littered with them, making it next to impossible to invade with the current game system.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Valadictum

Alternative to hexes? There are squares, pixels and zones. Thats about it for realistic options. Mainly because of programming logic, no one has been able to recreate the miniatures ability to move a specific distance, with the distance being affected by amount of variation from original direction.

It comes down to hexes being the best and most accurate representation of the 2D model of a map and units on that map.

Half-Strength units

Well.... if we are going down this path, how about:

Initial purchase of a "cadre" unit (X str pts).

Ability to "reinforce" the unit one (1) str point based upon a production schedule. Example:

Army/Corp........ 4pt cadre......... 1pt month.... 6 months

Tank Group....... 2pt cadre......... 1pt month.... 8 months

Subs............. 1pt cadre......... 1pt month.... 9 months

Cruisers......... 1pt cadre......... 1pt e/o month.... 18 months

[KDG]

We could make it possible to purchase a 1 strength Corps for 75, then allow it to be reinforced as normal. Thus you could end up at level 5 for total cost of 100, level 10 at cost of 132.

Then again, instead of reinforcing corps all the time, just operate units below 5 with little to no experience to whereever you need, then buy a new, full strength unit. Keep a force of 4 or 5 lower strength units for the purpose of emergency operating movements(I've never done this, but I think I might start trying this).

[KDG]

Second, making ALL builds at either half strength or 5-factors would require at least two turns before you have a new full-strength unit.

Bill Macon,

I like the above idea. It would slow down instant builds, make it less worthwhile to pop a new unit into an important place, bring in new strategy on when to reinforce these units, etc.