SC - Observations on an Under Appreciated Game

[Edwin P.]

Personally, I like SC because

1) Its simple, I can play it without reading the manual 5x.

2) Its fast, I can play a game against the AI or a person in under 3 hours.

3) Its Fun, just plain fun.

That said I think that SC needs four changes if its going to appeal to a larger audience,

1. Chrome, and lots of it. Why? Chrome sells games - ie pictures of ships, of tanks, of rockets, of generals, visible weather effects, etc.

2. A more unpredicatable game from an improved AI, random events, decision trees, etc. You want a game that keeps on surprising you.

3. A moddable feature that will encourage the growth of a community. Another topic mentioned Events, an excellent place to start. An improved editor is another idea.

4. Better marketing. Look at what Galciv did. Release version 2.0 then release version 2.5 six months later with major improvements so that it gets reviewed again in publications like gamespot.

Oh yes, and keep the game simple!

Sell it via subscriptions. Ie Subscribe to Fury and get acces to all current and past SC games for 1 year ( SC War in Europe, SC American Civil War, SC Pacific War. SC Ancient Rome)(Priced at $65 for a one year subscription). Or you can buy the games for $30 Each. If you bought it retail you can upgrade to a subscription for $30.

[ August 29, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

I believe you mean under developed and not under appreciated. So many complimentary things have been said about this game that I find it absurd to say it's un-appreciated.

But it has flaws -- ridiculous air craft carriers as strong as airfleets, no Russian Winter, no Battle of the Atlantic etc & so on --and has never been developed or adjusted to it's real potential. Nor has it been marketed in any way that would be noticed by the average guy who wants to sit down and play this sort of thing on a computer he doesn't spend much time at.

If myself and others didn't appreciate the game we wouldn't bother pointing out it's shortcomings, which some of us have done in 1,000 - 2,000 and even 3,000 postings.

What you're talking about is virtually a new game with numerous offshoots that don't exist and a completely different approach to marketing the product.

I think you're right, that's one plausable direction to move in. Rambo's suggestion of just getting it into stores is another.

In marketing it, one thing to consider is that, in the U. S. at least, times are becoming very rough. The same people who'd shell out $25 for a war game won't be willing to shell out $65. I wouldn't. Not with a business that's been experiencing annual half-life reductions like some unstable particle.

How about something good and simple. Take care of the final weaknesses in the present game, then market the finalized version more aggressively in it's present price range. As it gains popularity begin developing the Version 2 ideas you've mentioned above.

[ August 29, 2003, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Edwin P.]

Jersey John

All good points.

As for underappreciated vs underdeveloped perhaps I should have said under marketed.

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Question: Would you pay $65 if it gave you access to 4 or 5 or more downloadable games?

Galciv sells in retail stores for $39.95 (the developers probably make $20 on each sale). After you buy it you are given the opportunity to subscribe to their Drengin network which gives you access to all of their previous games, beta versions of games in development. The added cost only $30. For which you get access to several more games.

From a financial point of view its a way to get income from those that have purchased the game at retail.

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Another idea to try, if Battlefront wanted to sell the game direct is to advertise it on Amazon.com via their Storefront option with the sales revenue (less a small order processing fee) going directly to Battlefront.

The key on Amazon is that you can have your product linked to specific Titles via their ISBN. So pick a WWII title and link SC to that product so the customer sees a link to the SC store (ie Battlefront Store at Amazon)when they pull up that title. Just an idea presented for consideration.

[J P Wagner]

Basically what Edwin is describing is Hearts of Iron...a game with a lot of "bells and whistles" but at its' heart, not a very good game. So, if you can combine the best elements of SC and HOI together, SC's turn based AI, and larger hex grid map and HOI's tech trees, production ques and visuals, ect, you might find the Rosetta stone for unlocking the design for a first class WWII sim.

[SeaMonkey]

JP Wagner.....Amen! Release the new SC2, the European facet. Later, add different parts of the world, all to be linked. Provide for different theater commanders, so that we could have teams working together and not have so much to manage as a single commander. Make it turn based with simultaneous execution. Allow the AI(auto-pilot) to play different theaters in conjunction with the human player against the AI opponent. The human can develop his skills theater by theater and not be overwelmed with micro-management of the others unless he chooses to intervene, at his discretion. The add on theaters will be $20 each after the basic game $25. Of course fully modable and the editor to end all editors. HC retires to live off the proceeds and plays the game with us. Nuff Said !

[Moon]

Edwin - thanks for the well-meant advice, but your marketing suggestion has so many flaws, I don't know where to begin

I won't go into details, some of which are confidential business information, but frankly, what you suggest sounds like a ripoff, and we don't do that here. Of course we could have released SC1 buggy or with half the features, then made an SC 1.5 and sell it full price again and get oh so many reviews. Instead we prefer to make free patches, because we like to make people happy with what they paid for, and because that way instead of spending time on minor improvements to SC2, Hubert can focus on making SC2. (BTW, mind you, I'm not saying Galciv was buggy or anything; I don't even know the game).

As for Amazon, why should we give them a processing fee if people can order from us directly? Do you think they will find SC in between 14,000 storefronts quicker than they will find our website? How many people do you think click on our website daily?

Martin

[Liam]

HOI? No way, give me a break. HOI is quite detailed beyond what SC game engine could be. Paradox is very anal about making their games fairly extreme...

SC doesn't need eyecandy but it does need to be updated. Enhanced

I've been playing wargames for 14 years and after about 6 months it has worn itself out. Not a bad run. Though it needs a new release for another 6 months of fun

HOI is playable and doesn't require 5 manuals. Just isn't the same style game that SC is... SC has so many possibilities and they're all warn out after you play 300-400 times. You want more

[Edwin P.]

Thanks for your Feedback Moon

Much appreciated.

I wasn't suggesting that you charge for patches. I was trying to say I would release a major patch as a major PR campaign. GalCivs new updates are provided free to existing users (as is your policy and hearts of iron's policy), but it's released in such a way as to maximize the PR effect and attract new users. I mention them because I like their marketing concept.

As for Amazon, I worked for a publisher and they listed their older slower moving products thru an Amazon storefront by linking them to related existing titles/products (in SC case think HOI, etc). For about $3 per order they got sales at a lower cost than Amazons standard 50% to 55% discount. Example: $30 Book. Sales Fee of $3 vs Wholesaler discount of $15. They believe that they reached customers who would not have found their products otherwise.

Anyway, many thanks for your feedback its good to know that someone is reading these posts every hour, and best of luck with your product line.

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

Since responding I've been thinking about your basic $65 premise and my blanket statement that, with things being the way they are, I wouldn't shell out that kind of money. Actually, if based upon an annual fee with free downloading of tie-in games I probably would. You've listed several good ideas, I'm not in a position to know whether they are or aren't feasable but I especially like the modular game idea of using a single system for multiple settings. It's similar to what SSI did with some of their Russian Campaign game engines back in the 80s.

Martin

Yes, your view about a rip-off approach was my gut feeling as well, though I'm sure Edwin intended it differently and probably has a different idea in mind from what came off on the page.

I don't think the entire problem is marketing, a lot of is the economy in general. New Jersey is supposed to be a high income state but I've seen scores of small business go under the past couple of years. People who used to regularly give me work are behind cash registers in chain stores now. There isn't as much recreational money floating around as there used to be.

Shaka had some interesting marketing ideas in one of the other Threads which included Rambo's marketing idea and your responses. I'm linking that one below from Shaka's suggestions.

Click Here for a Related Discussion on Sales Ideas.

This is the first time I've ever seen the users of a product trying to come with ways to increase it's sales!

[ August 29, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]