Techncal Question on the russian tank arm.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

I noticed that when you invade russia they have only one tank army (correct) but i believe that its a level 2 or 3 tank. I know this is to reflect the advanced T-34 tank, but at the time of the german onslaught, they had very few T34's . therefore it would be more accurate to have the russian tanks at level 1 and have them have to develope the new tanks. Not bad for a 14 year old.....

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

What no reply, guess we're not very keen on tanks......

[grifter151]

I think the Soviets have the advanced tanks not only to show the superiority of the T-34, but also the Soviet heavy tanks. The KV-1 and KV-2 series of tanks had much better armor and firepower than any tank the Germans had at the time. German airpower, the overwhelming number of German tanks, and the 88mm flak were the only effective way the Germans were able to counter the Soviet tanks in the beginning of the war.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

You are right that they did have some superior armor, to that there is no doubt. But still i dont think there was enough for russia's base tank tech to be that high

[husky65]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

You are right that they did have some superior armor, to that there is no doubt. But still i dont think there was enough for russia's base tank tech to be that high

The Soviets had the Tech to build the T-34 in 1940, hence their tech was that high.

By 22 Jun 1941, 967 T-34s were available in the west.

[dasreich]

Im not sure, but didnt the soviets start out the war using their tanks in the clunky spread-out pattern that the Allies used during the early phases of the war in the west in 1940? If this is so, their tank groups should be way less effective at the outset of war between Germany and Russia.

[Aloid]

Originally posted by husky65:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

You are right that they did have some superior armor, to that there is no doubt. But still i dont think there was enough for russia's base tank tech to be that high

The Soviets had the Tech to build the T-34 in 1940, hence their tech was that high.

By 22 Jun 1941, 967 T-34s were available in the west.</font>

[husky65]

Originally posted by Aloid:

[QB]

German doctrine was better and they had radios but their tanks were outclassed by T-34s, when they met them it went badly.

Guderian wrote of the 'vast superiority' of the T-34 over his tanks

Remember the T-26s were frequently facing Pz-38t which went very badly when facing T-34s

as at 22 Jun 1941, Russia had 12,000 tanks - Germany only 3,332

Russia had T-34s in combat from the start of Barbarossa, this is well documented.

[Priest]

Do the Germans have better HQs in SC when the attack Russia?

If so then there is your radio and doctrine advantage. Yes the soviet tanks are superior but if the HQ bonuses are worse (to begin with) due to the experience in the west well that is damn fine abstraction by Hubert!

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Whoa aloid the 14 yr old comment was referring to myself, not you.

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Priest:

Do the Germans have better HQs in SC when the attack Russia?

If so then there is your radio and doctrine advantage. Yes the soviet tanks are superior but if the HQ bonuses are worse (to begin with) due to the experience in the west well that is damn fine abstraction by Hubert!

Priest,

The Soviets have no HQs when the invasion begins (assuming they did not join of their own volition). So, yes, the German HQ situation is far superior that of the Soviets.

[pzgndr]

The technology levels should account for training, doctrine, and organization, not simply the physical charateristics of new weapon systems. So, even though Russia had T-34s in 41, they were not exactly competitive with German units at the SC scale. On that basis, they should not start with advanced tanks. Ditto for France if they choose to buy tanks, which were also "superior" to German Mk-IIs and Mk-IIIs.

Frankly, I'd like to see all the majors start with at least one research point, just to add some interest and an occassional surprise. Russia could have their point in tanks and then see T-34s introduced at some random date, maybe early or maybe later. That would be better. We can probably edit the scenarios ourselves to provide some free research, except for the Italy and Russia setups, so Hubert would have to consider this.