Iron Ranger Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Thought I'd jot down some notes on the econmic breakdown of how the German war machine grows. Many of the experenced players call this the Cookie Cutter Plan for the Axis with the end goal of controling all minors by the second turn of the invasion of Russia (ok not Irland, Turkey, Canada or the Swiss) MPPs by group German 120 Italy 115 Begining 3 (Poland, Den, LC) + 50 France +56 Scandinavia (sp) +112 Balkins +160 (+10 for Italy) Iberian Pen. +85 (-10UK) NA and VF (Egypt, Iraq, VF) +136 (+15 Italy -15 UK) These numbers assume that you control all minors and the supply bridge through Gibraltar and Copenhagen. Allies will breakdown to 180 USA, 126 UK+Irland, USSR 480 Total Axis MPPs per turn 859 Total Allies MPPs per turn 786 However USSR will not hold at 480 but lose between 50-100 MPPs quickly and Finland will join the Axis and add an aditional 15-30 MPPs. Axis 920 Allies 700 - roughly So how can the Allies win if the Axis are making more MPPs, have a larger army after the front line in USSR is destroyed and have some very experenced units? They can turn the tide but your window of opertunity is small, 2-8 turns depending on the experence of the Axis player and if you still control the sea's. You need to hit hard and fast other wise the game will end by mid 1942. Because of this the game has a defenate pro-Axis slant when the player don't 'experament' with the different variable but play just to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Well done Iron Ranger This should be in the SC manual. It does point out as you so astutely have revealed, that the Axis does have the advantage in this game. Why England has more MPP's than Germany is goofy. Italy's 115 to Germany's 120 make no sence. When Germany conquared Europe only 20% of it's enconomy was for outside Germany, not 4 times as much! Germany and Russia's economic power were about equal, America was 2 1/2 times Germany. England was 80% of Germany. Italy was 10% of Germany. Don't get me wrong I know that this is just a game, and it is very playible, but the MPP's are not even close to what the model should be! Again thanks for your analysis, you have a keen insight to this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 If the economic model reflected the historical realities, then you would have a very unbalanced game. SC does not have in place all the other constraints necessary to balance the economic realities between the Axis and Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Shaka: I agree, its a game and with the current model it is highly playable. Both sides are balanced. With historical mpp Axis wouldnt have a chance to win . Iron Ranger - How can Allies win ?: There are a lot of strategys, some mentioned in other threads. Two main strategys (with equal players; and these are not the only strategys !!): 1. Allies fight hard for France and the other minors and/or the med: So Axis dont get all minors, so they never reach 900+ mpp per turn. Usually they only earn 500-600 mpp with this strategy. So Allies have the mpp advantage later in the game. 2. Allies go for tech and air superiority. So Axis get all minors and 900+mpp. But when Russia comes in the war, UK and USA starts a second front in the west. With jets Lv3 and longrange it should be no problem to kill 3-5 Axis units per turn with minimal losses. So Allies dont need that much mpp. This evens out the mpp disadvantage and more. Axis can only win if they are fast and decissive in the east. Summary: You are right there is a time frame for each side within they can win. If one side gives the other too much time to build up and doesnt attack, then the war is lost soon. But there is no pro-Axis slant. Only in the sense that it is easier to learn how to play Axis for beginners. To win with Allies you need some experience. A game with 2 unexperienced players will win mostly Axis. A game with 2 experienced players will be very balanced, probably Allies will win more games. [ May 21, 2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Terif ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 It should not be forgotton though that Russia and the U.S. get 3 and 2 chits to start with. I'm also an advocate for upping the initial IT levels for Russia (to 3) and for the U.S. (to 2)(this is where they were before patch 1.06 - Secondary affect of dropping from 10% to 5% hurt their initial levels). This would give them a 15% and 10% discount on their production, which would help balance out the MPP differences. Question for Terif? Are you able to get all the neutrals before invading Russia vs. a good player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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