JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Found a pretty good article about this opening operation of the war with an excellent table breaking down the armored composition of Germany's 7 panzer and 4 light divisions. A panzer regiment is also listed which has more tanks than half the divisions! Good information on both sides as well as the overall events. I think it's interesting reading during this slow period mainly devoted to speculation and fascinating infighting. < The Polish Campaign > [ March 11, 2004, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Thanks Jersey, looks really interesting. The Pole's did put up a nice and heroic fight. Especially considering what they had to fight with and what they were fighting against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 Glad you like it Curry. I was researching the novel and when I got halfway through this thing I realized a lot of us would enjoy reading it. The Poles are a really tragic case. I can never quite figure out why Hitler hated them so much -- for that matter I can't understand the dumb Pollock stuff considering they have such people as Chopin, Coppernicus and Paderewski ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 John If you need any help researching the Polish army, or Poland as a whole between 1919 and 1945, just ask (send me an email). I've got some good books on the subject, including some first hand accounts. Also, the owner of the Polish armour site, Michael Derela, is very helpful. He's answered a number of questions for me in the past. This can be found at http://derela.republika.pl/armcarpl.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 Bill Thanks, I'll definitely take you up on it! Found a bunch of good links last night. What I've been having the most trouble with is everyday life in Poland, especially in Warsaw, between early October 1939 and early winter 1942 prior to the Wansee Conference, when the Holocaust became official. One of the characters is in his early teens and starts out living in the area that later became the Ghetto, where he remains till the Spring of 1943 when he's taken in the roundup following the uprising. I've known for a long time about the deliberately abyssmal conditions, the forced starvation, disease and brutality, but needed commonplace details such as the workings of the three police groups -- the SS, the Polish Gendarmes and the Jewish Police. Will also send this in that e-mail -- thanks in advance my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbellamy Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I can never quite figure out why Hitler hated them so much -- for that matter I can't understand the dumb Pollock stuff considering they have such people as Chopin, Coppernicus and Paderewski ...Hitler never really hated the Poles specifically. He thought all the eastern european peoples would make wonderful workers in his factories, and I don't really think he cared if they were Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, or whatever. He did hate the Jews, but Poles were just obstacles to be ridden over. As for the dumb polack stuff, I have never heard of this outside the U.S.A., and I believe it's the product of a wave of Polish immigration in the late 19th/early 20th century, which was mostly composed of poor, uneducated types. On a side note, I find it slightly humorous when people try to insult me by calling me a "polack", since this is what Polish people call themselves anyway (spelled "Polak" but pronounced the same). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Maybe have alook at the movie 'The Pianist' if you haven't already. If remember correctly it plays in Warsaw during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 blackbellamy Yes, I agree with you entirely in the terms you put, Hitler was obsessed with the idea of having slaves to the Germans. Which is why the first thing he did in Poland was order all the intellectuals and other leaders killed. If any of three presonages would have been present they'd have been rounded up and killed accoring to his orders, as you obviously know. The reason I tend to think in terms of his having hated them is the hideous number of Christian Poles who died during the Nazi Rule there -- 3,000,000! Exactly matching the number of Polish Jews who were killed, 3,000,000 of each. The ethnic stuff has always amused me. I'm Irish-German-Italian and when I was a kid my greatest amusement always came from exchanging slurs with members of other groups. Why did I find it so amusing? Because I knew they said the same things about each other. A crazy uncle of mine used to say, "Them Micks are a bunch of animals ..." and then he'd tap my head and wink. Meanwhile, playing ball with my buddies on the next street I'd hear one of their uncles, thinking I was Irish, say, "Them dagos, they're a bunch of animals!" From around the age of eleven it seemed to methat those things were a perverse form of flattery. On the Irish side I used my middle name of Patrick, it was fun being Italian Johnny on one side and Irish Patty on the other. If there'd been a German street I probobly would have opted for Johann and listened them talk about how both the Irish and Italians were a bunch of animals! I'm sure you never let it bother you either. [ March 11, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 Kurt We have established a psychic connection because while you were typing that suggestion I was actually watching The Pianist! Fine movie, I really enjoyed it. Rented it as research and it's been a great help; there were some things in it that are similar to scenes I wrote for the novel, which I'll need to change now, but it's always good to have things like that happen as it indicates the thoughts are going along the right lines. This morning I realized I hadn't seen it and that it covered some of the very areas I've been looking for information on. An extremely worthwhile movie and story. Thanks for recommending it -- you obviously don't need to write such things, only think about them and I'll pick up on those supercharged brain waves as they move west across the Atlantic! Finally found the kind of disc I've been looking for, it's CD-RMusic. Ahh, they'll do anything to confuse us poor suffering customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 And you might want to see if you can rent a copy of "The Wall" too (and I'm not talking about the Pink Floyd film!). I think it was based on a novel by John Hershey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 Thanks Bill, I'll try to find it -- just read your e-mail, great stuff -- Very Gratefull! Hershey has long been one of my favorite writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 JJ, The book entitled "Man is Wolf to Man" by Janusz Bardach has some information on life in Poland at the time you are looking for. Found it interesting that he fled the germans to the russians. Ended up as a T-34 driver and then was convicted of semi-desertion and sent to a gulag. Even better was the man lived a half hour from me in Iowa City and just passed away a few years ago. I would have loved to talk to him before his passing. I am sure he would have been suprised to know there was a red army reenacting unit in his area. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 Konstantin I'll look for it, thanks for the recommendation. It's rough when the timing goes wrong on things like that. I've had similar experiences a few times in my life regarding great chess players, writers and ball players who I would have gotten to meet except for some odd juxtaposing of events and not long afterwards it was too late. Too bad he didn't know about the unit, I'm sure once he started talking with you he'd have opened up and probably had a good time. I knew a former Soviet Grandmaster who was a fourteen year old living in Leningrad when the siege began. He used to talk about everything, loved to converse, but I knew better than to ask him about that thing. One night someone else did and he just shook his head and wouldn't say a word; it was one of the really saddest expressions I'd ever seen. He had a great sense of humor that was way over on the dry side. One weekend tournament when I was at my best I felt pretty pleased with myself after beating a young master -- but a master all the same -- and a fairly elderly former United States Women's Champion. He went to dinner with myself and a couple of others and had us in stitches. His opening comment -- "So tell me, how do you fare against those who are neither too young nor too old?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Interesting subject, I found this site and posted it up awhile back on a discussion about people underestimating the Allies Men, Leaders, Equipment and resolve. Poles of course once upon a time were a Great Power. back in the Day. Just the fact is with many other great Nations they've fallen under with the partition of Poland by Russia-Austria-Prussia in the 18th century. At one time it was the Poles who were kicking the Huns Butt but they had a reversal of fortunes later (also Oddly enough I believe it was Napoleon who freed Poland, and then Rosevelt?) Names or Labels as their more commonly known as are just like one culture or the other. oddly enough the Educated and philosphical tend to have less in their vocabulary. Plus those who've been taught the right stuff In South where I live huge Racial prejudism, but it tends to hit Minorities from African and Hispanic decent more than any other. Even vis versa, towards the native Whites similar distrust, names, sayings... It's all old stuff... Hopefully in a few thousand years people will have a Klingon, Romulan, Xindi, Borg, etc... to name besides our own World/Earth/Peoples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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