Vanir Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Now some of you will say that BTS shouldn't waste their time on graphics, to which I say, tough luck, buddy. BTS isn't just catering to the hardcore grog (Otherwise we'd all be in the TacOps forum), they're also catering to the Patton-watching, eye-candy loving, semi-grog like me. JUST MAKE IT OPTIONAL! Perhaps the most sensible thing I've read in this thread. ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Well then it can't be any good ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. [This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Gremlin: /me doesn't crawl Here are some excellent sites to keep up with the hardware scene: http://www.anandtech.com http://www.maximumpc.com (and the magazine of the same name) http://www.sharkyextreme.com http://www.tomshardware.com http://www.arstechnica.com http://www.firingsquad.com Okay, I'm at home now and can grovel! First, thanks for the links, very kind of you to take the time. I am really with you guys on hoping that graphics improvements are made along the way - and of course, other games are going to surpass CM if CM stands still. I've already posted that in 15 years, CM, or games like it, will be able to host all kinds of features impossible to host now. Compare CM to the like of M1 Tank Platoon from 10 or 15 years ago. Didn't mean to offend anybody here - I did want to label certain (non-specific) people as blockheads though - mainly the ones who will buy a game based on how much it resembles Castle Wolfenstein - ie on how little they have to think, or on how God-like their powers will be. Perhaps that's not fair, either, I mean, to each his own. My thinking on this goes back to my Squad Leader days in high school. We had started a scenario and one of the players went to use his flamethrower and rolled double sixes. This was turn one. You can imagine the debate. "How can it be out of fuel"? he demanded. I offered that it had been used before the scenario commenced. "But this is turn one, what are you talking about?" Etc. I was always firmly in the realism camp, and quite frankly enjoyed when things went awry - some surprise or little nuance that forced someone to change their way of thinking. My favourite response to their questions was "It's all factored in." My friends were graduates of the King Tiger School of Indomitability. They didn't want things "factored" in or explained away as being akin to real war - they wanted total control of their forces. Which was their right. But it caused a lot of friction. Playing games of Sniper by TSR, they couldn't figure out why I divided my teams into historically accurate squads and gave them realistic names while their playes were named "Doctor Death" and the like. I don't think anyone here really wants the graphics sets to stay the same for the life of the CM series - we've all downloaded too many mods to convince anyone that that is so! I can understand the concern of people who don't want to have to buy new computers though - I have been frustrated beyond belief many times over the years, getting great new software that I didn't have the machine to play it on. It sucks. Big time. And that was before my internet days, so I didn't even have rave reviews of a product like CM in my face rubbing it in that I couldn't use it. Just the box and the knowledge that I had spent 60 dollars for a glossy looking paperweight. (Impulse buyers don't always check the minimum requirements on the box top!) Anyway, this whole conversation is just us talking through our butts anyway, so no harm is being done. The designers will make their decisions on what hardware will be necessary, and we will make ours as to whether or not it is for us, and that will be that. As it stands right now, I have a pretty good machine, will probably upgrade by the time CM2 comes out anyway, and whatever they decide to do I will be able to live with. Not everyone here is in that boat. I would rather see more people included than fewer - if that means lowering the bar as far as graphics goes, and maintaining such a large, diverse, and interesting community of game players, I am all for that. It has been great getting to know some of you fellows - interacting with you is far better than having a game so hi-tech that I am restricted to playing it by myself because there are so few others who have a P500 to run it on. And I don't mean to sound elitist or snobby, but the truth is a lot of companies put up slick screen shots (some of which are title screens and not even part of the game play!!) and sell their games based on that alone. That really annoys me. CM has the most realistic and truthful advertising I've seen. At least these days most games come with a demo so you can test it out yourself. If anyone wants to provide a link to a DEMO for Battlefield 1942 or the Cold War game, that might be a better way of making their case. Sorry to be so wordy. I think we all want good things for CM, so let the discussion continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: [band what about Operation Flash Point!? if you have not viewed the QT movie at this site: http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ you should not be posting about the future of CM graphics in this thread.Just encouraging more eye candy, BUT never at the expense of historical accuracy, but indeed to compliment it!! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted January 27, 2001 Author Share Posted January 27, 2001 No,the reason I created alt.games.combat-mission is because BTS kept locking my threads even though there was no spam on the threads. Seemed fach to me ! No, I do not think BTS is responsive to their customers wants, some examples: 1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it ! 2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time ! 3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. Smoke ? Muzzle flashes ? Impacts ? Is adding something like this a major graphics upgrade ?? I don't think so, I feel this is a reasonable request and several people on the thread support it. It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. BTS has already missed the mark in CM2....32 megs is not the correct target it should have been 64 megs with backward compatibility to 32 megs !! Shame Shame Shame Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself. Gunny Bunny *** Wabbits have good eyes and wike eye candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted January 27, 2001 Author Share Posted January 27, 2001 No,the reason I created alt.games.combat-mission is because BTS kept locking my threads even though there was no spam on the threads. Seemed fach to me ! No, I do not think BTS is responsive to their customers wants, some examples: 1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it ! 2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time ! 3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. Smoke ? Muzzle flashes ? Impacts ? Is adding something like this a major graphics upgrade ?? I don't think so, I feel this is a reasonable request and several people on the thread support it. It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. BTS has already missed the mark in CM2....32 megs is not the correct target it should have been 64 megs with backward compatibility to 32 megs !! Shame Shame Shame Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself. Gunny Bunny *** Wabbits have good eyes and wike eye candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted January 27, 2001 Author Share Posted January 27, 2001 No,the reason I created alt.games.combat-mission is because BTS kept locking my threads even though there was no spam on the threads. Seemed fach to me ! No, I do not think BTS is responsive to their customers wants, some examples: 1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it ! 2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time ! 3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. Smoke ? Muzzle flashes ? Impacts ? Is adding something like this a major graphics upgrade ?? I don't think so, I feel this is a reasonable request and several people on the thread support it. It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. BTS has already missed the mark in CM2....32 megs is not the correct target it should have been 64 megs with backward compatibility to 32 megs !! Shame Shame Shame Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself. Gunny Bunny *** Wabbits have good eyes and wike eye candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted January 27, 2001 Author Share Posted January 27, 2001 No,the reason I created alt.games.combat-mission is because BTS kept locking my threads even though there was no spam on the threads. Seemed fach to me ! No, I do not think BTS is responsive to their customers wants, some examples: 1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it ! 2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time ! 3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. Smoke ? Muzzle flashes ? Impacts ? Is adding something like this a major graphics upgrade ?? I don't think so, I feel this is a reasonable request and several people on the thread support it. It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. BTS has already missed the mark in CM2....32 megs is not the correct target it should have been 64 megs with backward compatibility to 32 megs !! Shame Shame Shame Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself. Gunny Bunny *** Wabbits have good eyes and wike eye candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: What competition would that be, exactly? Hasbro's "Squad Leader 2"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe they'll go off the deep end and call it Advanced Squad Leader instead. . It is just that attitude that let the Japanese kick the US aoutomakers asses, let NVidia beat the hell out of 3dFx, let AMD go from nothing to a good sized chink of the CPU market, etc, etc. The world is full of the corpses of businesses who thought they had no competition. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Gunny Bunny: It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. Would you please enlighten everyone, what does world revolve around? The needs of capitalism to force people to upgrade their machinery at half-year intervals? If there is no real need to add some more advanced graphical effects that only half of the people can see, why should it be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Gunny Bunny: No,the reason I created alt.games.combat-mission is because BTS kept locking my threads even though there was no spam on the threads. Seemed fach to me ! No, I do not think BTS is responsive to their customers wants, some examples: 1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it ! 2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time ! 3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. Smoke ? Muzzle flashes ? Impacts ? Is adding something like this a major graphics upgrade ?? I don't think so, I feel this is a reasonable request and several people on the thread support it. It seems the nay-sayers are just the people that do not want to upgrade their video cards. They want CM to stay at it's present level forever so they don't have to upgrade. Sorry to disappoint you, but the world does not revolve around your outdated 233MX and 16 meg video card. BTS has already missed the mark in CM2....32 megs is not the correct target it should have been 64 megs with backward compatibility to 32 megs !! Shame Shame Shame Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself. Gunny Bunny *** Wabbits have good eyes and wike eye candy Classic! How old are you? 12? Santa not been generous enough last year? Want some cheese with that whine? Well, since you are the authority on what BTS ought to do and what customers request, may I take this opportunity to invite you to code your own (no doubt perfect) little game, and get filthy rich in the process. You are obviously a sad and pathetic person, and you would do well to remember that the world does not revolve around you, contrary to your beliefs. If BTS was to do what 'some' customers wanted in CMBO, German tanks would be invincible and it would be real-time. 'Reason' and 'common sense' seem to be alien concepts to you. I am glad you have your own little usenet list, because it means we will see less of you here. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 It never ceases to amaze me how people that don't have any practical experience with self publishing and distributing a game can ramble on and on about what we did and didn't do right with Combat Mission or how we somehow missed a mark with our hardware requirements. >>1) Why are they using a freeware crappy webboard ?? Does not seem responsive to customers wants and needs to me. In fact, the board is not remembering my handle and password so I have to keep entering it !<< Actually this is NOT the freeware version. It is fully registered and it is your browser or system not keeping the cookie that is the problem with the password. Do your homework next time. If you hate this forum system so much then by all means excuse yourself and don't come back. We will get over it. >>2) BTS is quite sensitive about the topic of graphics. They realize their graphics quality is moderate compared to many non-wargame software. In fact, it would not surprise me if BTS comes on this thread spouts off and locks the thread before anyone has a chance to respond...happened the last time !<< Rants are always dealt with in the same manner and you happen to be right, I am going to lock this up, but only due to the insulting tone you seemed to perpetuate here. As to the graphics I don't think we are particularly sensitive to that aspect of the game at all. If anything we have done much to increase the overall graphical appearance of the game since its release. CM2 Will have better graphics than CM1 or even then the current Hi-res mods but we will absolutely not alienate the average wargamer that doesn't have the most current Hyper Horsepower system. I think we understand our core audience much better than you give us credit for, not that would appear all that difficult in light of your comments. >>3) Dyanmic lighting is not a large add on, it is a reasonable request from customers that have hardware that can utilize it. I have explained this in my original post. << Dynamic lighting not a large add on? It would only require a full re-write of the graphics sub system and as such will not likely be in CM2. You can not just "slap on" an entire new rendering method to an exsiting graphics engine. It would be equivalent to someone asking John Carmack to just add-on a full on the fly map creator which creates playable maps which abide by normal geographic rules. >>Remember, BTS blew it on CM1 with only 4 megs of ram then had to redo their crappy graphics to 16 megs....history is about to repeat itself.<< I have no clue to where you picked up that bit of info but it is purely false. There was no overhaul of graphics in CM. We did not "redo" anything. I guess PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World, and The New York Times, and PC Strategy Plus, Gamespot, Gamesdomain, Combatsim, Computer Gaming Online, Adrenaline Vault, Sharky Extreme, Mac Game News, and dozens of other mass media outlets that have reviewd Combat Mission also are clueless as they have all given us high praise and how could that be possible if we obviously did something so fundamentally wrong with the game? Maybe it would make sense to just show a little patience and see whats in store with CM2 before anyone starts proclaiming that's its doomed. To the best of my knowledge we have not released any official screenshots or feature lists of CM2 so its foolish to start saying what it will or won't have. I am glad you have a nice new home for you to take your rants with alt.combatmission, maybe there you will have an audience that will sit by and listen attentively as you insult us but it's not going to happen here. Insults, personal agendas, demands and pure rudeness have a very proven track record here. They are locked down. Madmatt [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-27-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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