To Tiger Experts: some questions

[Commissar]

In the process of finding a good model of a late production Tiger 1E to build, I began to realize that I'm somewhat confused on some details on the Tiger and Tiger 2. Hopefully, those of you who have studied both vehicles can straighten me out. I think I am getting my facts confused.

1) The Tiger 2 had two types of turrets that were placed. The Henschel and Porsche turret. My understanding is the Henchel was the one most commonly seen. Why was this? Generally speaking, why was one preferred over the other?

2) I can't seem to recall the design history of the Tiger 1. Was there some contest between Porsche and other maker in which Porsche lost out or something?

My mind is all in a jumble so if anyone can provide some details or point to a good website I'd appreciate it. Oh, if you know of any sites that can show me what a late Tiger 1E in 2nd SS "Das Reich" should more or less look like that would be helpful as well. thanks

[Priest]

IIRC the Porsche turret was more rounded and was thought to be more apt to deflecting shots down onto the hull top. Also by this time Porsche had fallen out of favor of the Riech High Command.

As far as the Tiger I goes, again IIRC, Porsche's attempt at an assault tank for the Germans was turned down for the Tiger I design. The chassis made for the Porsche design became the Elefant. Again I am away from my sources and I could have some stuff backwards. I have been doing a lot of studying of the Allied tanks as of late.

A quick trip to "Auchtung Panzer" should clear it all up!

[gredeker]

I'm also away from my sources right now, so take this with a grain of salt...

The Porsche turret had a shot trap on the turret front, which was curved (much like an early model Panther) and was thus phased out in favor of the Henschel turret, which had no such trap.

The Porsche Tiger I, IIRC, was built on an assumption that he would win the contract - and so, in best aggressive capitalist style , started his production run before the ink was on the contract. Unfortunately for him, the contract went to Henschel (?), leaving him with 80+ chassis which were then completed as the Ferdinand/Elefant. IIRC, one of the reasons the Porsche design was not chosen was that it was a gasoline/electric design (much like a diesel/electric locomotive) which used large electric motors to drive the treads; these motors were in turn powered by a generator attached to the gasoline engine. The design was finicky, slow, and worst of all, used up an extraordinary amount of copper, a scarce strategic metal, in the generator and motors.

[Snake Eyes]

The Henschel turret was easier to produce and more resistant to penetration. The Porsche model carried 80 main rounds and the Henschel model carried 86 main rounds.

Henschel

Porsche

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Snake Eyes ]

[RMC]

The Porsche turret had only 60-110mm of frontal armor (rounded)and was easier to penetrate even without the shot trap than the Henschel 180mm front.

IIRC one of the reasons for the rejection of the Porsche Tiger I prototype was the electrical drivetrain that while effective used lots of copper and was complicated. The Henschel design was much traditional.

[Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RMC:

The Porsche turret had only 60-110mm of frontal armor (rounded)and was easier to penetrate even without the shot trap than the Henschel 180mm front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This would have been because of the weakening of the armour plate by rolling it to achieve the curvature necessary.

However, the primary reason for its abandonment was that the Henschel turret was cheaper and easier to manufacture. It eliminatd the need to roll the turret front and als to produce a cutout for the commander's cupola in the left turret side. Finally, the mounting for the gun was more accessible in the Henschel turret than the Porsche design - always important when maintenance must be considered.

[Guest Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar:

2) I can't seem to recall the design history of the Tiger 1. Was there some contest between Porsche and other maker in which Porsche lost out or something?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Production of the Porsche VK 4501 design had been ordered before the [Henschel] trials as a safeguard against the failure of the Henschel design. As 90 vehicles were already in hand when the result of the trials was announced, it was decided to utilize the chassis as the basis of a self-propelled carriage for the 8.8 cm L/71 gun. This equipment was designated Panzerjäger Tiger (P) Ferdinand Sd Kfz 184; it was subsequently redesignated 8.8 cm 43/2 L/71 Ausf Pz Jäg Tiger (P) Elefant früher Ferdinand."

--- German Tanks of World War II, von Senger und Etterlin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[tools4fools]

Commissar, infos and lot of pics about the Tiger I at http://www.panzer-vi.fsnet.co.uk/history.html

Interesting site.

[Stoffel]

or go to Amazon.com and buy the book on all the tiger tanks and their variants

Its from Walter J Spielberger and its named:

Der Panzer kampfwagen TIGER und seine abarten

good book with all techological data and lots of facts,worth your money,I know cause I have it.

[James Ott]

I am sure you have checked this out, but in case you haven't the Achtung Panzer site has a lot of links on AFV modelling as well as its own forum on modelling.

Here is the link:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/modlk.htm