The Commissar Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Hey guys, A few weeks back, there was a thread called "Imperial Eagles: Napoleonic CM" or something of the sort. Anyway, I suggested modeling something akin to the fighting seen in the age of rifles with CM, by using simplistic rules and representations. Since a few people actually showed interest in the idea, and my computer is now functional, I created just such a scenario. The scenario comes with its own simple rules and suggestions for playing, as well as a few things to make the combat more familiar to that seen in the age of rifles. I cannot post pictures, but I can explain what the scenario consists of: Basically, a larger force of Germans consisting only of Rifle infantry in formation and a few guns must cross a river via 3 major crossing points, and capture a hill held by the enemy. The Americans must defend said position, having fewer men and fewer cannon to use. One crossing is on each flank and in the middle. Each player has somewhere between 2500-3000 points worth of pure Rifle infantry, without any automatic weapons or AFV's. "Formations" of men consist of a single compaany (3 platoons) lined up close next to each other in a line. Although cover is light, there are some interesting features like a town and an island to fight over. Charging down the middle into the American cannons will usually lead to defeat, but a bit of maneuver on the part of the Germans can lead to victory. The scenario plays in fog to simulate the low range of rifles at the time, and has troops raised to 50% fanaticism to simulate the battle drills. Basically, I think it should play well with another person. My AI opponent has a strange affection to breaking all formation and rushing my position with all his men in a big mass. I said AGE OF RIFLES, you idiot, not WW1 !! Anyway, if anyone is interested reply to this messege with your e-mail or simply e-mail me. Tommorow, when I get off school and work Ill e-mail out copies to anyone who is interested to try it out. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 03-07-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Seems like a cool scenario. Originally posted by The Commissar: My AI opponent has a strange affection to breaking all formation and rushing my position with all his men in a big mass.Maybe that's a successful tactic? Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Just to let you know I had thought that using AP ammo only on small artillery makes a good sub for the cannons on the Napoleonic era. Remember that the unit editor lets you pick the ammo loadout. MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Cannons of the napoleonic era did have HE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 But where they as effective as modern explosives and their fuzes? Perhaps the solution is to have small more artillery instead? MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Jarmo wrote: Cannons of the napoleonic era did have HE. Only with a quite exotic definition of HE... The artillery of late 18th -- early 19th century fired almost exclusively solid cannonballs or grapeshots on a battlefield. There were also explosive shells but they were unreliable and usually used only during sieges. (However, there were some exceptions). However, I think that using AT guns with only AP ammo will not accurately portray the effect of old cannons. The main reasons are: 1) they don't have grapeshots 2) the CM AP shots will not penetrate all ranks. (A single well-placed flanking shot could kill or maim 15-20 men). 3) the guns have much higher rof and are much more accurate. It may be that 1-2 are complemented by 3 but I can't say for sure. Oh, and here's one reading tip for all those who are interested in old guns and can read Finnish: Jyri Paulaharju's "Vanhat tykit", available mostly at various military museums. (I have seen it in the Artillery, Armor, and Military museums). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 7, 2001 Author Share Posted March 7, 2001 For now we have what - 2 people who want the scenario? So a self-serving *bump* for me. I remember there being more Anyhow, Ill send out the scenario when I get home tonigh (posting from school). Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Obligatory grog post. Grapeshot is a naval weapon and is nothing like "Cannister" which was used by field artillery. Grapeshot has five or six quite large iron balls wired together. They are large and iron so they have a chance of penetrating oak. Cannister uses a larger number of lead shot, and is intended for soft squishy horsey-manny things. HE, meaning "High Explosive", shells were never used, there being no high explosive obviously. Exploding shells were used, but only by mortars and howitzers. Airbursts could be, and were, achieved by correctly cutting the fuze. The British had the unique ordnance of Shrapnel, a much more effective exploding shell, and Congreve rockets, which were wildly inaccurate but devastating to enemy morale. I think the whole exercise of trying to adapt CMBO to some other era, particularly one so removed, is a misplaced effort. In the same amount of time one could teach one's self the rudiments of programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Forever Babra wrote: Grapeshot is a naval weapon and is nothing like "Cannister" which was used by field artillery. OK, I'm not that good in English terminology for old munitions. The corresponding Finnish term is "raehauli". - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike the bike Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 In fact grapeshot would be completely understood by Napoleonic gunners. Not all "cannister" was small lead balls - some nations used "heavy" cannister using larger iron balls that carried to longer range. and also the Russians had a unique gun/howitzer known as the "Unicorn" that combined relatively flat trajectory with use of shell ammunition - it could form up to 45% of a Russian battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Ive done this with a alot of German (conscript) and American (green) snipers, each with +50& fanaticism. I maxed out the number of men allowed on each side. I lined up the snipers in marching-type columns (civil war style) and made sure that they started out within about 50 meters or so from the enemy. SO basically it was two huge lines of enemy snipers facing each other and padlocked so thats where the action started. The armies were in open, even terrain and tightly packed together (as close as the game would allow). Each army had several if not more "sections" each w/ two rows of men. I set ammo on "2" so as to make them conserve their ammo and take a little more time in between shots. As I played the first movie (commanding those crazy hessians), the first few seconds were great! I positioned the camera so as to look straight down the relatively narrow space between the two armies and watched the bursts on each side. I felt like I was watching "The Patriot" again. The only problem was, even w/ conscripts and fanatasim at high, too many of the troops broke off. This didn't seem realistic to me, so I decided to put some platoon HQ teams in to boost morale and command strength. Of course, these teams let loose w/ their MP-40s and Tommyguns, so again I was screwed. I set the PHQ units on low ammo, but they didn't seem to do too much in the end, anyway. I somehow totally forgot to add cannon to the mix, also. I never did figure out the best way to get my troops to stay in formation, and regretfully I erased the scenario about two months ago. Seeing this thread might just inspire me to give it another go, though. Thanks, Commissar. ------------------ Ah scheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: For now we have what - 2 people who want the scenario? So a self-serving *bump* for me. I remember there being more Anyhow, Ill send out the scenario when I get home tonigh (posting from school). Cheers! --------------------------------------------- Whats up, maybe if we ever get a Pbem in, we could also try your Rifle Age Scenario. I would rather not start of with your scenario, I got a good one in mind. Send me you Rifle Age scenario, if you would. I'd like to check it out. This weekend(PBEM), no if and or buts. [This message has been edited by Shatter (edited 03-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Regarding cannon ammo: How about using HC? These rounds do have a blast effect, but lesser than AP. Suitable German gun would be the light 75mm IG. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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