MOD MADNESS -- Time for a rethink??

[Pzman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

I've been having good luck with MCM3 so far. Any problems with that?

Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No but its not as flexible. Well I could alwas run CM on Virtual PC.

[offtaskagain]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcm1947:

So, with that said I would like to ask about the example above. Do you mean that if I simply add lets say _us to the jeep bmp numbers ( all of them I assume ) and then _camo to all of them that then I could switch between them?

Correct. You would add the _us_camo to the end, then CMMOS will use that texture whenever you select camoflauged US forces. Add _us to the plain colored jeep .bmps. You could also create a button to camoflauge just the jeep if you really want to, it takes a few minutes but it's fairly easy.

This is done to the bmp numbers in the BMP folder also I assume? Is this correct?

Yes it is.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[lcm1947]

OK, thanks panzerwerfer42. Now one more question if you don't mind? This could only be done if there were a camo jeep mod available which there isn't? I mean at present it wouldn't do any good but say if there were a camo jeep mod out there then it could be done? switched from camo to plain and so forth? Right now only a plain jeep mod is available? :confused:

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcm1947:

OK, thanks panzerwerfer42. Now one more question if you don't mind? This could only be done if there were a camo jeep mod available which there isn't? I mean at present it wouldn't do any good but say if there were a camo jeep mod out there then it could be done? switched from camo to plain and so forth? Right now only a plain jeep mod is available? :confused: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct.

However, since Feldgrau did the last major Jeep mod with lots of options, his skill has improved a great bit and is thinking of redoing the Jeep using his current standards and with CMMOS in mind.

For instance, he's working on the Churchill now. He's going to do UK, and Candian Markings and all. (Canada only uses a Churchill Crocodile). All he has to do for CMMOS to load these different markings is to put a _uk suffix and a _ca suffix on the end of the files. He may also make an option for aerial recognition panel for it as well. In this case he'll use the _uk_panel extension, as this is the naming convention he used for his Universal Carrier.

Now Gordon is chomping on the bit to do camo versions, so all he has to do is to add _uk_camo extensions to the files.

The rulesets are already written for the Allied vehicles. Don't ask me what the naming conventions are for the different winter versions. I don't even know. I think its like _snow_star, _snow, _snow_cav, _whitewash, etc.

[Maximus]

See the difference here between the batch file system and CMMOS is that the "batch file", so to speak is already written for any new vehicle we want to add. You just have to add the correct file extensions to them for CMMOS to understand and use them.

With the batch files, everytime we added a vehicle, we had to write in new code. And that's where the problem arose where we need to do somefink. We ran into a problem when we tried to code in the Camo Priest. For some reason, due to primarily what the CMMOS hi-res and low-res patch file fix, the batch file was becoming obsolete, I guess you could say. So in order to make this all easier for future mods, Gordon wrote CMMOS to do this. Now all the mod author has to do is to add the correct file extensions and CMMOS can handle the rest.

[lcm1947]

Thanks Maximus I appreicate you taking the time to explain. I understand now or at least beginning to see the picture. Man, am I excited about all this. I haven't even been playing trying to monitor this board and keep up to date with what all is going on. The GAME is even getting better!! All you guys Rock!

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Clubfoot, I totally agree. I am in constant amazement that Maximus has not been banned yet, but I guess there is still hope. He has absolutely nothing to contribute to the board, except his constant trolling, and putting the work of others down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you're right to some extent. My behavior is nothing new. This is the way I am. I am a perfectionist. So it is natural for me to "probe" the work or product of others and my own for that matter. This is in fact the way I got on with the Marco/Gordon mod testing team.

Back when Marco released his original versions of the M4/M4A3 Shermans, I had downloaded the low-res versions, (only because "hi-res" mods were something new at the time and I didn't know any better) and I found the dreaded pink spots along the suspension area. That happens when you shrink a hir-res file down when it has tranparent pink.

Anyway, it's just this critical and very observational eye I have for things. I've been like this since I was a infant. I was always very observant, and it would drive me insane would people would miss some very obvious "event" taking place because their mind was off in left field.

Now, that doesn't mean that I am an uber-grog. Because I am not. I could care less what the muzzle velocity of the Neberwasalegitimateweaponsystem is.

Now I do give credit where credit is due. For example, with Tiger's mods. I like his paint jobs, but his finished product was a little less "desirable" in the details. However I praised his Tiger mod that most people use now, because that one IS good. It won't be until if Fernando does one that I might install a different one.

But for the CMMOS vs CM Mod Manager, like Gordon said, they are both designed to be used together. CMMOS swaps out large amounts of textures AFTER you choose the options you want and reduce all _opt suffixes to their base. CM Mod Manager is good for swapping out different markings for the same vehicle. Like, "I'll think I'll use Guards Armor markings in this battle, but then I'll use Royal Armor marking in the next battle." That is what CM Mod Manager is good for. But for those that don't really give a rat's ass which divisional markings a vehicle has for a particular battle, then the batch file system and now CMMOS is the program to use.

However, if you really want CMMOS to do that sort of swapping then it can. You just have to write a new ruleset for it to do it.

Like I'm going to try to figure out a way to write a ruleset for Andrew's Commonwealth Uniforms to swap, between blanco and non-blanco versions along with different helmet options.

Just stay tuned for my German Uniform Ruleset and then some of this stuff may be clarified.

[Michael Dorosh]

I wasn't aware Canadian units used the Churchill Crocodile. Can you advise me which ones? I thought they were used exclusively by 79th British Armoured Division, and that only 50 some were ever made.

I do appreciate the explanation (and the one that Marco sent me via email, bless him) and while I am willing to dispense with my conspiracy theory, I am still not content as to the user friendliness. I am not sure I understand why the rulesets are numbered the way they are (does it matter?) and what ability we will have to add our own.

Let's say I want to swap back and forth between the 5012 bmp that comes with CM (showing a blank sleeve for British or Canadian infantry) and a 5012 bmp with a divisional marking on it (or, let's say 60 such sleeves that might reside on my hard drive).

Does CMMOS allow me to do this without having to write the batch files?

If so, how do I write the rules-set to do this?

A step by step tutorial would be great. Apologies if I am being impatient and this is in the works (or already exists somewhere). I think Marco may have explained much of this in his email to me but as I say - I am a luddite and not alone in wanting something that will not only work on downloaded CMMOS-specific mods, but in getting it to work for other stuff as well.

[Feldgrau]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I wasn't aware Canadian units used the Churchill Crocodile. Can you advise me which ones? I thought they were used exclusively by 79th British Armoured Division, and that only 50 some were ever made.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Michael,

I really don't know if the Canadians had any Crocodiles inherent in any of their units, but I do know that CMBO has them listed as a 'Canadian' vehicle.

I suspect this means that if you play as the Canadians, you have the ability to get a Churchill Crocodile, but that it would be, in reality, a 79'th Div. asset attached to the Canadian unit in play.

But, I could be wrong.

I do believe that the Canadians had Churchills at some point (at least I thought those were Canadian Churchills shown in all of those famous photos of Dieppe). Because of the way the Churchill series works in CMBO, an unfortunate side effect will be that if you have - say - a Churchill VIII AND a Churchill Crocodile all in the same scenario, they are both going to be carrying the same markings (whether British, Canadian, or Polish).

I plan on having an optional set of files which will allow for a Churchill Crocodile in 79'th Div. markings, so that if you are playing a scenario where you ONLY have a Churchill Crocodile, then it will be carrying the 79'th Div. markings. Same thing for the RE Churchill AVRE....

Regards,

MSP

[lcm1947]

Michael Dorosh Asked;

Does CMMOS allow me to do this without having to write the batch files?

If so, how do I write the rules-set to do this?

A step by step tutorial would be great. Apologies if I am being impatient and this is in the works (or already exists somewhere). I think Marco may have explained much of this in his email to me but as I say - I am a luddite and not alone in wanting something that will not only work on downloaded CMMOS-specific mods, but in getting it to work for other stuff as well.

--------------------

I would love for somebody to do a tutorial also. Step by step. This new program CMMO has really opened up a whole new dimension to the game. I'm trying to follow everybody and understand but afraid on my own won't get far so would too greatly appreicate any help. It's too exciting to be left out!

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I do appreciate the explanation (and the one that Marco sent me via email, bless him) and while I am willing to dispense with my conspiracy theory, I am still not content as to the user friendliness. I am not sure I understand why the rulesets are numbered the way they are (does it matter?) and what ability we will have to add our own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The numbering doesn't really matter. The numbering only keeps things chronological. You can number things in ranges of 2,3,4,5,10,20, etc.

Ex. In my German Uniform Ruleset Gordon told me that I can number them anyway I want. So I used 1-6 for the Heer, then started with 20 for the SS, then with 40 for the FJ. So in case I wanted to add in another uniform in some particular division, I wouldn't have to renumber all the rest of the files.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Let's say I want to swap back and forth between the 5012 bmp that comes with CM (showing a blank sleeve for British or Canadian infantry) and a 5012 bmp with a divisional marking on it (or, let's say 60 such sleeves that might reside on my hard drive).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well first of all you'd write the Info###.txt file. Let's say Info100.txt This file just establishes the name that will appear on the tab in the program.

In this case it would be:

Info100.txt

#! Version 1.00

#! RuleSet Name Commonwealth Uniforms

Then you'd start with your rulesets. You'd then go:

RuleSet100-001

#! Version 1.00

#! Name UK Uniform

#! Files UK_Uniforms.txt

#! Icon UK.bmp

#! Key 0000

#! Options X (where X is the number of different sleeve files you want to load, in this case we'll use 2)

#@ Blank Sleeve

_uk

#@ 49th Infantry

_uk

_uk_49thInf

Where _UK is your common extension for UK uniforms, and your sleeve with the 49th Infantry patch has the extension _UK_49thInf

Note that this _uk extension is the same as the one used for the vehicles, but the line

#! Files UK_Uniforms.txt tells CMMOS to only look in the UK_Uniforms Filelist.

So you'd do this with every sleeve you had. Granted this would get very messy with 60 options, although they'd be a scroll bar, but nonetheless they'd be there.

Now if you want to go with Canadian Textures, you could even have different uniforms for the Canadians. In that case just give those the _ca extension. So then you'd write Rule100-002 with the same text but substitute _ca for _uk. Then do Rule100-003 for the Polish.

You could even add a Rule100-004 for different helmet textures. OR you could use the helmet for the options under Rules 1-3 and then use Rule 4 for the different sleeves.

Basically all you have to do is devise a naming scheme and then write the rules to load those particular bitmaps.

I could send you my German Uniform Ruleset to see how I've done it, if you like.

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Feldgrau:

I do believe that the Canadians had Churchills at some point (at least I thought those were Canadian Churchills shown in all of those famous photos of Dieppe). Because of the way the Churchill series works in CMBO, an unfortunate side effect will be that if you have - say - a Churchill VIII AND a Churchill Crocodile all in the same scenario, they are both going to be carrying the same markings (whether British, Canadian, or Polish).Regards,

MSP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, these were Canadian - 14th Canadian Army Tank Regiment (Calgary Regiment). I guess Tank Regiments were originally going to have Churchills; the Calgary Tanks did indeed land early mark Churchills at Dieppe. By Sicily, they had re-equipped with Shermans, as you probably know.

I look forward to seeing your British Crocodile mods! They were always one of my fav vehicles in ASL and I do like them in CM too.

[Michael Dorosh]

Max - thanks for the explanation. Hopefully one of youse guys can get up a similar briefing on one of the websites somewhere. I suppose I am extraordinarily dense, so I will fool around with it and see how far I get. I suppose it must be frustrating for the designers and playtesters to get what amounts to cold water thrown on their "baby" - not the intent at all, just a bit of frustration at not being spoon-fed.

We CMers (computer users in general, really) are a spoiled lot, we are! It's been a long time since I've had to use a cassette tape drive for my computer (for example), or actually (gasp) TYPE THINGS OUT to get them to work as opposed to pointing and clicking...

[Gordon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Is it just me, or is CMMOS resembling a way for a select group of modders to ensure that only their mods get widely distributed/used?

Will the software at some point be expanded to provide some modicum of user-friendliness for those who do not wish to download only these "CMMOS-friendly" mods?

For example - if someone modded two different texture sets for the US jeep, would it ever be possible to simply assign those new mod bmps certain file-names, and have a CMMOS-type program recognize them rather than having to decipher "rulesets" etc. in order to get the manager to work?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Michael,

It was certainly never my intention that CMMOS be exclusive. I hope that given the documentation and a little study of the existing RuleSets that anyone inclined to do so can offer new mods that take advantage of the existing RuleSets, or can create new RuleSets and mods that use them.

Look, if Maximus can figure it out, it can't be *that* hard.

Besides, having always been one of the last kids picked for kick-ball in grade school, I'm one of the least exclusionary, elitist people I know.

Gordon

[Gordon]

Michael,

I hope Maximus' and Marco's explanations have helped you out. The only "tutorial" to date is what's in the Readme.rtf in the CMMOS package. I had hoped it was pretty clear, but if not, we'll need to work something up, unfortunately, I've been pretty busy getting CMMOS and all of the associated mods released (as well as several other mods that are in the pipeline), so I haven't had much time for further documentation. That, and the fact that I stink at writing documentation (that's why I write code).

Anyway, let me know if you're still confused after you've had some time to absorb some of the info.

Gordon

[27ray]

Or even better yet, Rob. Spend a fraction of the money and buy a PC and quit your cryin'. Oh what was it that I used to say, oh yes..."What's a Mac again?"

No offense. But more often then not, it is proven that Macs just don't make good gaming machines because of all their odd file formats.

Isn't COMOS simular to a mac mod program that came out over a year ago that allows you to preview yout mod selection and revertback at any time, and i believe that COMOS was created at the beck and cry of PC users who wanted an "easier" way to access mods. Just to set the record straight. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/wink.gif

In addition I think that it would be ideal to have multiple unit designations (i.e. a 2Pz Division, or a Panzer LEAR Mark IV, etc...) depending on location and time of the battle) then to have 15 identical tanks (all #3 lets say) crossing the battle field. Maybe BTS could build in the functionality and the mod makers could each spend some time creating a division or two of units. Then in the battle set up you could choose what division makings to use for your force and all the tanks would have diffrent numbers. Just an incomplete thought.

-ray

P.S. What odd file formats? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/confused.gif