Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Please do not post how you hate or love "gamey" play. That's been done elsewhere. This topic is NOT about that. It is about identifying all the different types of tactics you use or hate to be used. All we're interested in, is what type of "gamey' play you use, or have been subjected to. You can use this as a resource for: 1) Finding out new and innovative ways to win; or 2) Find out new and "gamey" things to watch out for or agree not to do with your opponent. Please remember, just post a favorite OR hated "gamey" tactic. We don't need to discuss the validity of each one. That's been done elsewhere too. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 Here's a recent one for me. A MG armed vehicle (such as a halftrack or carrier) has a crew casualty. Well, the vehicle can no longer target an enemy unit, as the MG is not manned. If you are in need of foot infantry, run the vehicle in front of some of your enemy's antitank assets. Bam! You have a wreck, and now some foot infantry. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 I have used gamey tactics myself only in retaliation or to test the game system vs the AI. That being said, here goes; 1. Distracting target. Used to be real bad with crews, but still works with FOs (after they shot their ammo), MGs and Mortar teams. Advance with your main effort and divide enemy firepower by providing juicy high dollar targets to snipe at. 2. The irritating spotter shell. A carry over from my old Sl/COI/COD gaming days. Drop a spotting round to perhaps cause the enemy to scurry. Against cracker jack opponents and the AI, it really does not work well, but against the nervous and unsure... 3. The unarmed vehicle recon, or other use. Use your gun damage vehicles in other roles. I think, in reality, a gun damaged tank probably withdrew. We can use it for troop transport, mad dash recons, cat and mouse spotting... Somewhat gamey; I consider the below tactics to be valid military tactics, if just a bit risky. 1. Run till they drop. Shock tactics, run, take an objective deep in the enemy zone (if the attacker, this can split the battlefield)and form a hedgehog defense. Even if they get wiped out, a good platoon can hold up a bunch of assets and a lot of time. 2. Spread them thin. Split squads, send them out to find the enemy by death, firepower or looking. 3. Armored car dash. The M-20 is very cheap and very effective with its speed and .50 cal. Sweep them deep and fast. Might get a few lucky kills and tank leader decaps. Nuetralizes guns very well if you are lucky. All of these tactics can be easily countered by compotent opponents, and I have seen them all fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Suicide Jeep Recon Tactic. Goofy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 Then there is using the board edge as "cover," protecting to your flank. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 IMHO, 1. Playing with an unrealistic mix of experience levels for your troops like all veterans, elite, or crack troops. Or simply not having the majority of your troops being regulars. See the top of page 78 in the "good book" (I mean the CMBO Manual) and look under the heading "Regular". 2. Always ignoring how rare a tank type was. During WW II there were only 254 Sherman Jumbos ever made. Or if you line up with only JagdTigers (of which only approx. 77 were produced). 3.) Always using Airborne, Sturmgruppe, or some other elite unit type of troops. What, can't you win without them? 4.) Lastly, playing to only win, win, win, win, & win. Sure its a game and someone has to win, but how you win is more important. This is hard to express and yet it is very profound. What kind of win is it if you use gamey tactics? Or search the game to find a tactic that never was used or even thought of during the war. BTS themselves say that this is more of a simulation than a game. Get deep into the part and really simulate WW II. In all of the fighting were all the troops the best? Were all the tanks the best? Was victory always certain before an action even started? Test your limits and them improve upon them. Use all Regulars for a change and adapt to making it work. Most of all have fun. Submitted with respect, Jumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: I have used gamey tactics myself only in retaliation or to test the game system vs the AI. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Slaps your wrist. SLAP No posturing, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 Aww, Jumbo, everything was so good, then #4 was "politcal." Please, no statements regarding why or why not gamey, just list the tactics. (Also, submitted with respect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Aww, Jumbo, everything was so good, then #4 was "politcal." Please, no statements regarding why or why not gamey, just list the tactics. (Also, submitted with respect) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Where do gamey tactics come from? Our attitude about the game and how we approach it. A real solution must be reached or this thread just looks like a bunch of whining. (I'd email you this, but you've made your email address unavailable.) Jumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumbo: A real solution must be reached or this thread just looks like a bunch of whining. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, please refer to the first post. It can be: You can use this as a resource for: 1) Finding out new and innovative ways to win; or 2) Find out new and "gamey" things to watch out for or agree not to do with your opponent. This is NOT about whining. It's a SOURCE of information. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 I like Jumbo's #4. Best thing on this thread so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Hmmm...I was called a "Gamey Pirate Bastard" by a person a couple of days ago after killing his third Hellcat. He also said that I use "invisible tanks" Perhaps "gamey" is subjective. ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 <sigh> I was hoping that this was going to be a good topic on different tactics used, and depending on your outlook, you could take them as non realistic, or the other side, innovative ways to win. Since this is devolving into whining about winning or realism, etc., maybe BTS should just lock it up. BTS? Please lock. I don't want to get into the same old argument like where Jumbo is heading. Everybody has different opinions on this, and this was not meant to be a topic to sway anyone's opinion. It was to be hopefully a source of what we can see, or will see in CM. For those of you that participated early, and in good spirit of the topic, it is appreciated. <sigh> ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wie201 Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 This I think has been fixed, but infantry would often run towards the nearest best cover when under fire, often straight towards the enemy position. For example, running towards the woods where the enemy fire was coming from, as there was only clear terrain behind you. The "gamey" part, if one considers it so, would be where an ambush was set up with full knowledge that, by the time the ambush was sprung, the TacAI would seek the wooded terrain and dash forwards, as opposed to just taking cover or trying to withdraw. This could be construed as using the game engine itself against an opponent. If you are unfortunate enough to have the ambush sprung right at the beginning of a movie, you could be out a squad or two before you can react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: 2. The irritating spotter shell. A carry over from my old Sl/COI/COD gaming days. Drop a spotting round to perhaps cause the enemy to scurry. Against cracker jack opponents and the AI, it really does not work well, but against the nervous and unsure... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How in the world is this gamey???? If you want to only make your opponent think you are going to drop arty how can that be gamey? Are you going to tell me next that feints are gamey to? Get real people. Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Now Jeff, I said this tactic was "I consider the below tactics to be valid military tactics, if just a bit risky" Some might consider it gamey, I do not. Feints are the best tool in the game to maximize firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacky Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Some more gamey tactics: 1) Using Zook's, Piat's, Sharpshooter's and Shrek's to scout. 2) The defender buys Green/Conscript Flame-thrower's to torch a small map. I don't think this is gamey if the defender buys the entire Engineer platoon. 3) Buying hordes of Green FO's and TRP's. *This one is nasty, since the FO's don't need LOS!* TRP's are not counted against artillery totals. 4) Using 60mm's and 2 inch mortar's en mass (i.e. 10 60mm's attached to a Company Commander). It's very effective in game, but realistically the ordinance was attached to the platoon's. 5) I'm pretty sick of seeing Hetzer's. As a matter of fact, I'm _really_ sick of seeing them. Although their point values are indicative of their effectiveness, it takes skill to knock out a Hetzer. The last major TCP game I fought in pit me up against _four_ green Hetzer's. Hetzer's are far more effective on the defense and their point values don't reflect it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: 2. The irritating spotter shell. A carry over from my old Sl/COI/COD gaming days. Drop a spotting round to perhaps cause the enemy to scurry. Against cracker jack opponents and the AI, it really does not work well, but against the nervous and unsure... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm with shandorf on this--I disagree that this is gamey in the current versions. In the early versions the spotter shells were free (not counted against your fire allocation), this allowed one to get some free shells, which can be very effective when using some of the large bore stuff. Now that spotting rounds are counted against the limit, it isn't particularly gamey, and IIRC, one of the arty professionals on the board endorsed it as a valid tactic. Especially with something very large bore-- what do I need a full broadside from the 14" guns (for an extreme example) when a single shell with a firepower of 2350 will clear a very large area? With the smaller stuff it can be used as effective harrassing fire: "I know where you are, and I've got a couple of tubes following you around" ------------------ Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Is this considered gamey? I've used it in the past, and have seen it used against me, but am not sure if it is in anyone's SOP (I was a tanker, so we ALWAYS drew fire!) Moving a squad/zook/etc in order to draw fire in order to reveal enemy positions. ------------------ "Oooh, tough crowd. A real bunch of nihilists. Let them eat chads..." - Lawyer (who else!?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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