BTS: CMBB tank track loss/vehicle still rotates

[Username]

The current immobilizing model where vehicles get M-killed is that the vehicle cant rotate. It can move its turret, if it has one. This , of course, favors tanks over AGs.

Would it be possible to model rotating a hull if only one track is out? Or does the game lump all M-kills (engine, tracks, dead drivers, etc) into the same model?

Lewis

[Rother]

A tank with one track can't turn at all. Think about it.

Rother

[Danzig]

I believe it would. Don't ask me about the physics involved, and I certainly have never driven a tank before. It makes sense, however, that a track that is immobilized would cause the other track to rotate the tank around the now defunct track. The track that wasn't operational would act like a centerpoint for the tank to rotate around. Now it wouldn't be a perfect rotation mind you, and the terrain could certainly have a lot to do with the functionablity involved, but I think it could at least change angles slightly at the very least...

But like I said, I'm not a physics instructor or tank driver, so... :confused:

[Rother]

Danzig,

You're correct in your assumption but the tank you're talking about still has two tracks. You have to brake one track to turn. Once the track is off the drive sprocket you can't brake it. Most likely the tank will roll off the broken track. There is a chance that it will bind up allowing you to pivot around it but don't bet on it.

Rother

[Madmatt]

The assumption you make is that a mobility kill is just a single track hit when in reality it could be the engine or drive train destroyed, the road wheels jammed, the boggies knocked of kilter or any number of hunderds of other issues which would cause a vehicle to be able to NOT move at all.

The abstraction we make in the game is that damage is suffecient to render the vehicle completely immobile. To add a new level of damage resolution will have to wait until we re-write the game code.

Madmatt

[Username]

Modmatt cracks me up.

I never made that assumption. Read my initial post. I even ask if thats the case! You made the assumption.

What I was going to suggest BEFORE the engine gets rewritten is that IF the game differentiates between engine hits, track hits, etc then an engine/tranny/steering column/fuel line/etc M-kill be modeled with the BOGGED or whatever being stuck in the mud is called.

The track hits (which are modeled I believe, that is, its an area of the tank that gets a percentage of the hit distribution) could be differentiated by movement/rotation limitations. To be clear, it would be allowed to rotate but not move a distance. Subsequant track hits could cause a chance to be completely M-killed.

And yes, its possible to slew a tracked vehicle about on one track. Its even possible to drive on one track a short distance on hard surface. The trick is flooring it (to slew on one track) and feathering it to move in a strait line. I remember that Panther ace who shot up all the Shermans, Barkmann, his driver was able to reverse far enough back with major track and vehicle damage.

Thanks Matt

Lewis

[Blackhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

The assumption you make is that a mobility kill is just a single track hit when in reality it could be the engine or drive train destroyed, the road wheels jammed, the boggies knocked of kilter or any number of hunderds of other issues which would cause a vehicle to be able to NOT move at all.

The abstraction we make in the game is that damage is suffecient to render the vehicle completely immobile. To add a new level of damage resolution will have to wait until we re-write the game code.

Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need for that. A tank with just one track cannot turn. It's modeled the right way already.

[Andrew H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackhorse:

No need for that. A tank with just one track cannot turn. It's modeled the right way already.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless it's immobilized on ice.

:cool:

[Username]

The Panther then came under attack from Allied fighter-bombers, wounding some crew members, blowing off a track and damaging the ventilation system. Under the cover of the air strike two more Shermans approached, only to find that Barkmann's tank had not suffered any serious damage and was still more than capable of fending off their challenge. The two Shermans were soon reduced to burning hulks. Barkmann managed to destroy one more Sherman before deciding discretion was the better part of valour and ordered his driver to reverse their way back out of danger. This in itself was no mean feat in a badly damaged Panther tank. Nine out of the 15 Shermans which had attacked his lone Panther were destroyed, together with other vehicles. In addition, despite fighter-bomber attacks and his tank being severely damaged, Barkmann managed to get his vehicle and crew back safely to German lines. He was decorated with the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross on 27 August for his achievements.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8662/barkmann.html

[Username]

Didnt BTS mention that there will be some sort of close range targetting of tracks in CMBB? If this is the case, then vehicles like the stug, which already come off pretty unhistorical, will be further handcuffed.

Vehicles like the Ferdinand had fairly wide traverse of the main weapon. It could easily hold off attackers to its front with one track.

An interesting thing is that most AFV/tanks that are hit cant tell they are detracked till they try to move. I wonder if there can be an ultimate FOW setting that only informs the player of M damage till they try to move. in brazen chariots, the author was very clear about this.

Lewis

[Blackhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

Barkmann managed to destroy one more Sherman before deciding discretion was the better part of valour and ordered his driver to reverse their way back out of danger. This in itself was no mean feat in a badly damaged Panther tank. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8662/barkmann.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Part of the drill to put track back on a tank after you throw it is to move the tank forwards and backwards. Missing one track, a tank is able to move forward and backward, albeit in severely degraded and very difficult to manage manner.

in this case, I imagine it was a straight reverse to cover, perhaps on a paved or cobblestone road.

[Username]

I personally did this. I shed a track, it came off at full speed and was laid out behind me in a nearly strait line.

With the track off on one side, the vehicle would move both forward and back with minimal throttle and would slew to one side or the other when I floored it in forward and reverse. The drag on the road wheels on the field on one side (tore up dry ground), seemed to be the steering element.

I stopped after a few trys because it cant be good for the roadwheels. Under combat conditions, that would not be a concern though.

Or you saying it cant be done or that it shouldnt be done?

Lewis

[Blackhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

I personally did this. I shed a track, it came off at full speed and was laid out behind me in a nearly strait line.

With the track off on one side, the vehicle would move both forward and back with minimal throttle and would slew to one side or the other when I floored it in forward and reverse. The drag on the road wheels on the field on one side (tore up dry ground), seemed to be the steering element.

I stopped after a few trys because it cant be good for the roadwheels. Under combat conditions, that would not be a concern though.

Lewis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done it too...a few times...

The tank goes straight. If the soil is soft, the tank follows an arc, as the soil provides resistance. Other than that, there is no steering invloved.

[David Aitken]

Got to say it: Will CM2 model the BT-7 Fast Tank differently, in that if it loses its tracks, it can still move on hard surfaces?

[Username]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackhorse:

The tank goes straight. If the soil is soft, the tank follows an arc, as the soil provides resistance. Other than that, there is no steering invloved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The arc is what I am refering to. A vehicle like a stug could use it to point itself at targets. The gunner then using the traversing mechanism to zero in on the target.

Lewis

[Username]

Well its Monday and I would like BTS to comment.